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Old 07-16-2007, 08:39 AM
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Default Goodbye America, Hello North American Union

Quote:
Goodbye America, Hello North American Union

By Alan Caruba

In a month, August 20 and 21, the leaders of the United States, Canada, and Mexico will sit down together in Montebello, Quebec to discuss making the borders between these three nations disappear. They will discuss progress on a vast highway project passing through America to link Mexico with Canada.

So far, no one has asked the citizens of these three nations whether they want to do this. It is not up for a vote in Congress and, indeed, Congress has no supervision over the gnomes in the U.S. Department of Commerce who are busily “harmonizing” the laws under the auspices of the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America (SPP).

This, we’re told, is not a treaty so Congress has no constitutional oversight obligation. I guess it’s more like a nice big handshake between the presidents and prime minister of these three nations who, let’s face it, just know better than the rest of us. I mean, do Canadians really think they’re in charge of Canada? Americans should have a say about programs affecting America? Or has anyone asked Mexicans if they want to be part of some “harmonized” configuration not unlike the European Union?

Last time I checked, the European Union lacked a constitution because some of its member states, notably France, had rejected the one that was offered. The Constitutions of the United States, Canada and Mexico are about three sovereign states determining their own regulations and laws. So far, fourteen U.S. States have passed resolutions in their respective and sovereign legislatures directing the federal government to abandon further activities involving SPP.

Part of the opposition is directed at what is generally called the NAFTA Superhighway; an exceptionally wide corridor that would include rail lines, freeways, and pipelines from Mexico to the Canadian border. The Texas legislature passed a law intended to slow down the highway project with a two-year moratorium. The vote in the Texas House was 137-2. The Texas Senate passed it with only four votes in opposition, but the Governor vetoed it in late June, thus opening the door to the seizure of the private property needed for the Trans Texas Corridor (TCC).

Turns out that Texas had already signed a 50-year lease with a private Spanish company named Cintra, one that permits for no competition by way of building new government roads or improving existing ones going in the same direction.

Bush has been a leading proponent of the “immigration reform” legislation that more than two-thirds of Americans polled say they do not want. Tucked into those “reforms” were provisions to advance SPP. A Teddy Kennedy amendment to S. 1348 asserts that, “It is the sense of the Congress that the United States and Mexico should accelerate the implementation of the Partnership for Prosperity to help generate economic growth and improve the standard of living in Mexico, which will lead to reduced immigration.” Oh, yeah? And here I thought the economic well being of Mexico was the job of the Mexican government.
Story Continues,
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Old 07-16-2007, 08:44 AM
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Canada will never let it happen.
Canada looks at us like we do, Mexico.
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Old 07-16-2007, 09:29 AM
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Default It may be inevitable

Let's face it...The world is becoming a smaller place. Communications, travel, the cyber world...Everything is making the world smaller - easier to communicate, transfer information...Even to have live online conferences/meetings, as if someone is in the next room.

And, it is very conceivable to build an incredible highway or rail system from the north to the south of North America.

Will it work?...Eventually...If it becomes truly possible to more easily establish and own a business anywhere on the continent. But, I do not know if this is now possible under Mexican law...From what I understand, retirees from the USA are not really allowed to even own property in Mexico...(But, maybe this has changed?).

One problem that I have with Mexico is that it is very hard to do business there - I find that many business people there are just not responsive...They do not follow-up on inquiries...Maybe, this will change over time...I do not know...

With the number of illegals here now, I do not know if this type of agreement would make more come here...Eventually the job market will be oversaturated...And, maybe, if investors can buy or build businesses in Mexico, it will change the immigration situation...

We all had this big fear about Mexican truckers taking over our highways (with NAFTA)...I am not sure what happened with that? But, I am not hearing anything further...Does anyone know about this situation?...I am not up to date on it...

But, the point is...The world is changing...And, even though the politicians may make agreements that we do not like...They may not materialize into much...Like NAFTA...What happened with that?
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Old 07-16-2007, 09:40 AM
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It is inevitable; it will happen, and, in my part of the country, is already well underway. We Americans have built a system here that is simply too "nice" and too "enlightened" to entertain any strong notions of being exclusionary. We're so deathly afraid of becoming "just like Nazi Germany" that we are totally incapable of seriously making any effort to control our borders.
We also have a loosely-based nation founded on an ideal (freedom), rather than upon an ethnic group, or a religion. In this free society, we don't demand any strict feelings of "loyalty". We are free to be loyal or not, as we choose. The international business community is thus motivated by profits, here or abroad, while being largely unrestrained by any loyalty or duty toward the US. Their duty is toward their stockholders. Cutting costs and maximizing profits is the name of the game.
PS MIGEE- Good Post- it just came in as I sent this one. Your points are well-taken.
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Old 07-16-2007, 11:45 AM
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US Govt (Commerce Dept) take on NAFTA after 10 years of operation:

http://www.ita.doc.gov/td/industry/o.../CoverPage.pdf
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Old 07-16-2007, 11:47 AM
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I had been following the truck issue. Public Citizen has info on Mexican trucks crossing border. The latest news is that the trucks have not passed safety tests, but bush is going ahead with the program. Hope these trucks don't have tires imported from China.

"In February, the administration announced plans to conduct a “pilot program” allowing up to 1,000 Mexico-domiciled trucks to travel beyond the current border zones. In 2001, Congress required the administration to put a premium on upgrading inspection facilities, computer databases, and other safety-related requirements before opening the southern border for long-haul trucks. The Bush administration has still not finished implementing the safety requirements in that law, but decided this year to rush ahead with the pilot program in an attempt to open the border."

Public Citizen | Auto Safety Group | Auto Safety - Bush's Mexico-domiciled trucks plan flunks safety rules


Jerome "Swift Boat" Corsi is the author of the new book warning of the consolidation of the Americas. Some clips from his interview
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/20...rsi/print.html


Jul. 16, 2007 | Three years ago, as the co-author of "Unfit for Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry," the book that launched the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth campaign, Jerome Corsi was arguably one of the 2004 presidential election's single most influential people. Though Corsi denies that the book and the movement were specifically intended to aid the reelection efforts of President George W. Bush, and says the only intention was to oppose Kerry, there's little doubt that he played a significant role in winning Bush a second term. But now Corsi has turned against the administration, accusing it of being part of a conspiracy to destroy the sovereignty of the United States as we know it.

In his new book, "The Late Great USA: The Coming Merger With Mexico and Canada," Corsi weaves a sprawling theory in which multinational companies, the Bush administration, the Council on Foreign Relations, Democratic-leaning college professors and the governments of Mexico and Canada, among others, are all working -- not necessarily together, but in harmony -- to create a "North American Union." This NAU, Corsi says, will be similar to the European Union, breaking down national boundaries, establishing a single North American currency and potentially even leading to a rewriting of the Bill of Rights.

Already a controversial figure -- he's been accused of plagiarism, and the liberal press watchdog Media Matters has compiled a list of some of the inflammatory remarks he made while he was posting at FreeRepublic.com -- Corsi recycles some old boogeymen for "The Late Great USA." For example, he makes the Council on Foreign Relations, once a favorite target of the radical right-wing John Birch Society, a key player in his tale. But that doesn't mean his book won't find a huge audience; released July 10, as of this article's press time it had already reached as high as the No. 1 spot in Amazon.com's rankings of both nonfiction and politics books.

Salon spoke with Corsi the day before the book's release about his theory, the problems he sees in joining an EU-type organization and the split between the corporatist and anti-immigration wings of the Republican Party.

What's the book about?

It's about the coming merger with Mexico and Canada. I make the argument that just as in Europe, it was a 50-year stealth plan by the intellectual elites and government officials planning to create a European Union, to go from originally a trade agreement, the coal and steel agreement, the original agreement, step by step incrementally building an argument and getting the votes needed to end up with the European Union. They went through a European common market, a European customs union, European community, finally European Union with its own currency, the euro. I'm saying the plan here is the same. Multinational corporations and elites pushing to have NAFTA advance into what it is now, the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America, ultimately a North American community, and if we don't stop it it will end up as a North American Union with its own currency, the "amero," the a-m-e-r-o, replacing the dollar and the other currencies in Canada and Mexico.

What you seem to foresee, however, is something that would go further than the European Union and actually dissolve the United States.

The United States could remain as a country in a North American Union the same way Italy, France and Germany remain as countries in the European Union, but there's a significant loss of sovereignty so that now the European Union dictates from the nameless bureaucrats in the working groups in Brussels, in Luxembourg, the laws which the legislatures in the various countries -- Germany, France, Italy, etc. -- can pass. And if it's not approved they can't pass the law. So you basically have a European Union regional government becoming supreme and the governments of the individual countries becoming secondary in sovereignty to the regional government's dictates and rulings.

So what's the motive on the part of the American government and American corporations in forming this North American Union? That wasn't much discussed in your book.

I pointed out very clearly that the motive here is a multinational corporate model, that our multinational corporations largely are beyond borders already. I pointed this out extensively when I discussed how the North American Competitiveness Council, which is an advisory group under the Security and Prosperity Partnership, was constituted almost entirely of multinational business groups that are constituted to advise SPP. The agenda there is that, you know, American labor is too expensive for the multinational corporations. Our manufacturing jobs are increasingly going to China and our high-skill jobs -- I mean take a look at Bill Gates and Microsoft: He's one of the top billionaires in the world, yet evidently he does not have enough billions. Rather than being thankful to U.S. citizens for buying Microsoft products over decades ... he's pushing for another billion dollars. He wants unlimited HB1 visas to get computer scientists in an unlimited capacity from India and he's threatening that if he can't get that here in the United States, he'll form a subsidiary in Canada and get his Indian computer scientists through Canada. As opposed to -- evidently the sons and daughters of American citizens graduating from colleges in computer science are too expensive for Bill Gates. And it's that type of an agenda that is already beyond borders, which is pushing for global profits at the expense of the U.S. manufacturing or the U.S. middle class.

You also allege, though, that the Bush administration is actively doing this. What's its motive to want to break down the United States?

Well, I say it's been bipartisan. It's both George H.W. Bush, who openly talked about a new world order; Bill Clinton, who advanced the NAFTA agenda by getting NAFTA passed; and George W. Bush, who's now advanced NAFTA into the Security and Prosperity Partnership. I'm saying that all three of these presidents and our Congress have been willing to erase borders to the extent that illegal immigration has been openly allowed and encouraged in a bipartisan effort. We got a Kennedy-McCain bill twice being jammed in the Senate, even though the American people overwhelmingly rejected it; it's a bipartisan effort. And the politicians of both parties are equally paid campaign contributions by the multinational corporations that advance this agenda.

But isn't it something of a large step from giving amnesty to illegal immigrants or not closing the borders to actually erasing the United States as a country?

The argument I make is that the loss of sovereignty occurs incrementally, just as it did in Europe. So as examples I point to, just take a look at the comprehensive immigration reform debate. There are 12 million illegal aliens in the United States today that the government admits to. The number is probably much larger than that in reality. About three-quarters of the illegal aliens have come here during George Bush's [presidency]. And what we then get presented with is an argument advanced by both parties in the Senate that we have to pass some kind of a law which will give legal status to the illegal aliens here. And the argument is, "Well what are you going to do, round them up and send them home? You can't do that."

Of course, that's a straw man argument. There's no one really arguing to round everybody up, the illegal aliens, and send them home. The argument is to close the borders, to enforce our employment laws, and through attrition many of the illegal aliens would return because the economic advantages to being here are significantly reduced. And by securing the borders, fewer will come to increase the numbers. But by advancing the straw man argument, and saying we have no alternative but to grant some kind of a legal status, what we have is one of every 10 people born in Mexico living in the United States today as a Mexican citizen, with that number projected to advance to one out of every five people born in Mexico living in the United States as a Mexican citizen by 2010 or 2015. So we already become a dual country, and we allow Mexico to establish 30 or 40 consular offices whose purpose is to protect the civil rights of their Mexican national citizens living in the United States. That's how we begin to lose sovereignty instead of enforcing our laws, securing our borders and demanding employment laws to be enforced, reducing the social welfare benefits that are given to illegal aliens, and demanding that those who are here come here to become U.S. citizens, not to retain their Mexican citizenship.

I'm not quite getting the connection yet between there being a substantial population of Mexican citizens here and actually erasing the United States as a country.

First of all, let's start with what you just said -- erasing the United States as a country. I'm not making the argument that the United States goes away as a country, no more than Italy goes away as a country. But what Italy is today, under the European Union, in terms of its sovereignty, is considerably less than what Italy was 50 years ago. Fifty years ago, Italy and the Italian legislature passed laws without consultation with the European Union's super-regional structure. Today the super-regional structure dictates the law that the European legislatures can pass. Fifty years ago, Europe did not have a regional currency and Italy was using the lira. So it is not that Italy's gone away, but Italy has fundamentally given up sovereignty -- not completely but in major ways -- to the super-regional government. I'm saying that the same thing is happening here as we allow one out of every five Mexicans born in Mexico to live in the United States as a Mexican citizen. That's a significant compromise to our sovereignty from where it was before that happened.

But the title of your book is "The Late Great USA: The Coming Merger With Mexico and Canada," and I'm also looking at a quote from you from 2006 where you say, "Why doesn't President Bush just tell the truth? His secret agenda is to dissolve the United States of American into the North American Union."

In both of those, dissolving the United States into the North American Union is the same way that I'm talking about dissolving Italy into the European Union. In other words, it's a loss of sovereignty issue that I'm concerned about, not that the United States would be not existing in some form, but a much reduced form when you consider the issue of sovereignty. And I'm pointing to, consistently, in the articles I've written that you quoted from and in the book, issues such as the NAFTA Chapter 11 tribunals, which can today overturn a U.S. law if it adversely affects a NAFTA investor. That's a loss of sovereignty. It's empowering a regional judicial structure to overturn a law passed by a U.S. state or the federal government because of a regional business interest in NAFTA.

At one point in the book, you ask, "[W]ill the US Bill of Rights be among the laws that have to be 'integrated' and 'harmonized' with Mexico's and Canada's?" and I'm wondering: How does that question jibe with the Supreme Court decision in Reid v. Covert [which 50 years ago affirmed the supremacy of the U.S. Constitution to any treaty]?

Well, the whole issue is that what the Security and Prosperity Partnership is doing in our administrative law structure is to take laws and regulations that were U.S. in nature and change them. "Integrating and harmonizing" means changing so that they accord with the laws in Mexico and Canada. Now those changes, if you take a look at the 2005 and 2006 Report to the Leaders on the SPP.gov Web site, they mention something like 250 memorandums of understanding or other agreements that the bureaucrats have reached, our bureaucrats have reached with their counterparts in Mexico and Canada in these bureaucratic working group structures ... [T]hey create, for instance, a North American transportation policy, or North American border crossing policy, North American environmental policy, North American energy policy, North American steel policy.

OK, but you were specifically asking whether the Bill of Rights had to be harmonized and that Supreme Court decision I was referring to specifically says, "The Court has regularly and uniformly recognized the supremacy of the Constitution over a treaty." It also says, "It would be manifestly contrary to the objectives of those who created the Constitution ... to construe Article VI as permitting the United States to exercise power under an international agreement without observing constitutional prohibitions."

What I'm pointing out to you is that while that case says that, there are other cases, including the one that dealt with the Mexican trucks and the environmental standards, where our courts have increasingly reached to international considerations, here under NAFTA, to modify U.S. laws and their applicability ... I'm saying that that type of decision could increasingly become the trend or the standard as cases get brought up under these SPP guidelines and regulations, which will happen. As the agenda advances, it'll happen increasingly. We're now going to allow Mexican trucks to come across the border through this Department of Transportation demonstration project, and they're going to be able to go all through the United States. Inevitably, that's going to lead to a series of issues that involve litigation of one kind or another, either through trade issues or accidents or any number of other circumstances that could occur. When those cases get presented, either to our courts or to NAFTA-created tribunals, it's going to present the pressure to have either more NAFTA-created tribunals, which are under discussion, or our courts are going to have to examine whether the SPP-integrated and -harmonized laws apply as compared to a strict U.S. law that was passed by Congress, but now redefined under SPP.
...

(The conversation here veered into the 2004 election and the Swift Boat Veteran's Role)
...

I think that the immigration issue as a whole, especially in George Bush's second term, has deeply divided the Republican Party. You know I'm not a Republican and I'm not a Democrat. I don't believe I've ever been registered with either party ... George W. Bush in the second term has clearly alienated a large segment of the conservative Moral Majority that has elected Republican presidents back to Ronald Regan ... The conservative coalition within the Republican Party wants, typically, border security as a first objective. And that George W. Bush has continued to push this comprehensive immigration reform agenda, many conservatives have come out and said that this is tantamount to amnesty and that's been an issue that's caused a severe split within the Republican Party and significantly damaged the Republican Party's conservative base in terms of its support. No question about it.

What do you think his motive is?

Well I, again, I have never met George Bush, let alone discussed it with him, and it's hard to know what another person's motive is, which implies their psychological reality. All I can judge is what he's doing. George W. Bush -- and it's been bipartisan by the way, both Democrats and Republicans, because you've got Bill Clinton who pushed the NAFTA agenda as strongly as George W. Bush has advanced the NAFTA agenda with the Security and Prosperity Partnership, and the winners seem to be the multinational corporations that increasingly want our borders with Mexico and Canada erased or opened and want a world global economy in which China has increasing access to the manufacturing that was traditionally done in the United States. And I argue both in the book and in the articles I've written that the clear winners in this agenda are the multinational corporations and China. Even Mexico -- Mexican labor has not had any of the promises fulfilled from NAFTA that Mexicans would benefit in terms of reducing poverty or expanding wealth in Mexico. Mexico today remains just as drug cartel-controlled and corrupt a country, with a massive split between the few very wealthy and the mass that are tremendously poor and what Mexico's strategy seems to be is to be demanding increasingly open borders so that they can transfer their impoverished masses to the U.S.

What would be so bad about being in an EU-style confederation?

A loss of sovereignty is a major consideration, I think it should be, to millions of Americans. I think that our institutions of government, our declaration of rights, are unique, and you know our declaration of rights, our rights are declared to be inalienable, that means given from God, not declared by a North American Union. Our institutions, the founding fathers believed, were a form of government that derived from natural right, from a set of principles that were needed, given human nature, to form a limited constitutional republic in which the various branches of government balanced each other and competed for power. That structure of government, I think, is unique in preserving the liberties it was created to preserve. And if we compromise it, or move away from its sovereignty, I believe that we threaten the liberties it was intended to protect and we compromise a unique form of government created in human history that seems to have worked and to have fulfilled the promise the Founding Fathers articulated.

Haven't the countries of the EU done fairly well for themselves? You were talking about Italy. Its monetary system was in shambles before Italy picked up the euro.

You seem to imply that doing well means economically only. If that's your only criterion, I'm not even sure I'd agree there. But that's not the only criterion. Other criteria are sovereignty, which I'm trying to convey to you is an important and independently important consideration from economics and worth preserving. You know, I think we have thousands of men and women buried in Arlington who did not die for a North American Union or NAFTA; they died for the United States of America.
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Old 07-16-2007, 12:26 PM
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Old 07-16-2007, 12:43 PM
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Lots of Info here, Tigerlily. I can't add much, except to follow up what you said by one of my never-ending analogies. No matter what side of the fence you're on, this whole situation is analogous to living next door to a poor neighbor with a very large family. Each of us is going to have to honestly ask ourselves, just exactly how far are we willing to go to help this neighbor?
Taking a bag of groceries over and giving it to them, I'm sure everyone would agree, is fine. It's the neighborly thing to do. But let's carry the analogy out a bit further:
(1) In view of the fact that this family is so poor, is it OK if they send a few of the kids over for dinner with us? If so, how often? Should we expect a "thank you" or not? If we don't get thanked, would we be annoyed?
(2) Are we willing to give them a ride to the doctor? How about just lending them our extra car? If we could, would we sneak them into our own Health Insurance plan, since they don't have one?
(3) Is it OK if the neighbor's kid comes over and does our yard work, so our own "spoiled" kid doesn't have to? If not, why not? Would we have mixed feelings about this?
(4) Just how far is far enough? Would we give our neighbor an interest-free loan? Would we agree to simply "chip in" to some sort of a joint bank account, or joint credit card, or would we object to this for security reasons? Why? Would we co-sign on a bank loan for him?
(5) If all the above were happening, AND the neighbor had, for example, a gambling habit, would we feel justified in "butting in" to his private life, and insisting he stop gambling? Would our helping him out financially justify our "interference"? Or would we feel it was still "none of our business".
(6) When his kids were in our house, would we insist they "behave" and live by our rules? Or would we say "It really isn't our place to discipline other people's kids".

Simplistic as this all may seem, I think you'd find the exact same human dynamics taking place in this analogy as are taking place in the North American Union plan. If we can truly respond to the questions posed in the analogy, perhaps the "real" situation will become clearer. Like it or not, what we are discussing here is nothing less than voluntarily surrendering our sovereignty, putting our "trust" in a power that we have no control over, for a supposedly "good reason". Is this OK with us? We'd better think very carefully.
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Old 07-16-2007, 02:24 PM
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The purpose of the Nafta Super Highway is to bring consumer goods into the country using Mexican shipping companies. The Port of Long Beach will be closed. A new port built with American Money will be built in Mexico; from there goods will be shipped into the U.S. The ports on America's west coast will all close, the new ports will be in Mexico, and a port employee in Mexico will be paid about 10,000 a year and will not belong to a union. It all comes down to money, money that the big corporations do not want to pay to American workers. I have a problem grasping how all this makes sense. What sense does it make to build new ports in Mexico and a super highway from Mexico into the U.S. for the transportation of goods when the American consumer will not have a job to buy these goods. It seems to me that the federal government is hell bent on seeing every job in this country being performed by low wage earners which for the most part are immigrants, legal and illegal. It makes no sense when Ford for example which is an American based company closes down plants in America and builds plants in Mexico just so they can stay competitive with foreign based companies. Then you have Hershey who is closing down its plants in America and moving to Mexico. We the consumers are all told time and time again that this benefits us in some way. We are told that the cost of the product is less because it comes from Mexico or China...I say BS, take Fords Fusion which is built in Mexico. That car does not cost less than any other car that is built here in America. The politicians in Washington should be doing everything possible to ensure that American citizens and American company's are the ones that benefit, I see the opposite happening. Free trade with communist countries and free trade with countries that make sure their citizens do not earn a REAL living is not what the politicians in Washington should be trying to facilitate.

America is the consumer of the world, which is the only power that this country holds. Every business in every country wants their products sold here. The problem is that the politicians in Washington are too stupid to see that or take advantage of it. I see America losing this power year after year. When this last power is gone I’m afraid there will be nothing left. The so called political elite will have raped us of every job and dollar we have left in order to make sure some third world worker who is happy to work for fifty cents an hour has a job.
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Old 07-16-2007, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chloedog View Post
Story Continues,
Family Security Matters (broken link)
I have read this one and that is yet ANOTHER reason to be concerned about Hillary. To those who forgot it, NAFTA (the reason millions of US jobs left for Mexico or Canada) was initiated, crafted, and implemented by Bill Clinton (while he was not busy messing with cheap women in The White House).

Bush has continued the Clinton NAFTA push, under the North American Union.

That is why the next President cannot be a Communist like Obama (wnats open borders and feels anyone should come here, thus a NA Union would help his goal) or a Guilliani, who wants America to become NYC.

That is why I am going with Fred Thompson or Mitt.
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