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As someone who works in this particular field, in NYS law, using any form of 'excessive' corporal punishment with an object is illegal. And you can be arrested.
You can use your hand, but what determines actual abuse is usually the result of the injury itself (marks and bruises) and the gravity of force used to apply it (open hand smacks, punches etc). It's not always so cut and dry because some ethnicities and races show evidence more than others will. And evidence of abuse is usually what determines it as an arrestable offense.
But in my honest opinion, we all know some children need their asses whipped and if you're older than 30 we've all had it happen to us and as adults today we understand why. But the law is there to protect children, because someone went overboard at some point of time leaving children injured, crippled or even dead.
My parents never ever used any for of physical punishment against me or my siblings. No whipping, no beating, no spanking ... they never laid a finger on us.
They had a better and much more effective technique at discipline: the guilt trip.
I am all for whipping children as I was as a child and it definitely kept me in line. My oldest sister will not lay a finger on her 2 daughters, and they are out of control. She can take away all their toys, ground them, etc, but they will smart off, etc. One of them is 6. lol, I just shake my head. Meanwhile the youngest has 3 of the most well behave kids I've ever seen as she will spank them if they get out of line. I can give a seemingly endless list of examples through family and friends. I have yet to see a kid who doesn't get spankings, well behaved, or even respectful to adults. I firmly believe that this is part of the problem with society today. Today's youth is being raised with this "time out" line of garbage and "talking" to your kid. It doesn't work, and whats even more amazing, is the parents seem to be in denial about it. Telling your kid to not do something 20 times isn't "well behaved". It seems as if parenting is old school nowadays, and it's all about being a friend to your kid. What a joke.
I am all for whipping children as I was as a child and it definitely kept me in line. My oldest sister will not lay a finger on her 2 daughters, and they are out of control. She can take away all their toys, ground them, etc, but they will smart off, etc. One of them is 6. lol, I just shake my head. Meanwhile the youngest has 3 of the most well behave kids I've ever seen as she will spank them if they get out of line. I can give a seemingly endless list of examples through family and friends. I have yet to see a kid who doesn't get spankings, well behaved, or even respectful to adults. I firmly believe that this is part of the problem with society today. Today's youth is being raised with this "time out" line of garbage and "talking" to your kid. It doesn't work, and whats even more amazing, is the parents seem to be in denial about it. Telling your kid to not do something 20 times isn't "well behaved". It seems as if parenting is old school nowadays, and it's all about being a friend to your kid. What a joke.
I was never spanked or whipped, I behaved properly and was respectful of people who treated others fairly, I matured fast, and took an interest in politics, world issues etc very early, I've also been complimented on my work ethics and morals in every job I've had since the age of 13.
I don't think any of my friends were punished physically, and the majority of them has turned into stand up citizens who contribute as much as the next guy.
If your theory is true (namely that society has problems due to lack of corporal punishment) how do you explain that? And what problems are you talking about in the first place?
I was never spanked once in my life..and my husband laughs at me cause i am the most non-bending of the rules person he knows! I will not even go in the out door at a grocery store..I never park in the fire lane even to turn a movie back into red box for one minute....
But my mother was good at teh guilt trips when I misbehaved. But I had things taken away. And I hated that!! My husband says he asked for a spanking cause it was over so quick and he could go back to having fun!
From my experience as a parent to a child and as a former social worker who investigated child abuse, a lot of parents do not follow through with the discipline...non violent forms. I worked also with unruly teenagers and these teenagers walked all over their parents..and lots of them were spanked as children. What every parent had in common was not following through with the dicipline forms...such as grounding or losing privileges. And if they did lose privileges they were back before I knew it...way too early. I joked about having to parent these children myself because the parents would not.
If your children are misbehaving I have always taken away their activities period. No television..it comes out of their room. As well as their cell phones and computers and music and comic books. They are left with classics to read adn homework to do...and they stay in their room..period. They do not set on the couch with us and watch tv with us..cause they are not allowed. Depending on the crime the punishment starts out with a week...and has been as much as a month. And yes you ground yourself during that time..lol Because there will be a movie you are dieing to see...and your child will get in trouble and be grounded for 3 weeks and you will have to miss that movie because you will have to stay home and make sure they are not having any fun...lol. But that is what parenting is all about!!
I believe in corporal punishment (along with a discussion of why it is being administered) is useful in certain situations, up until age 12. The need for it has to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis, taking into account the child's personality/maturity/history, the age, the offense and whether the child had been previously spoken to or warned about the offense.
Some children are naturally compliant and don't need to be spanked; increasing chores or taking away privileges may be enough or them. Other children are very strong-willed and constantly challenge parents and other authority figures. They often refuse to obey and are not fazed by having privileges taken away. I believe that such children benefit from good doses of corporal punishment to keep them in check.
I thank my parents for every spanking I ever got. Although I didn't like it at the time, as an adult I realized that they were trying to instill discipline in me and an appreciation for consequences. Those spankings reinforced the value of obedience and kept me out of a lot of trouble that could have negatively altered the course of my life.
I think there's a big difference between an open-handed swat on the behind and whipping/beating. Another thing to consider is whether the parent is in control of their own emotions when disciplining - if the punishment is meted out because the parent has lost control of their own anger, the likelihood of this becoming abusive goes up, IMO.
I don't plan to use corporal punishment with my son (and haven't thus far). For those who say time-outs and behavior modification are ineffective, I counter with in most cases where these strategies don't work, the parents aren't applying the principles effectively and consistently. Are there exceptions? Sure. However, there seems to be a misunderstanding with parents (both those who do and do not use corporal punishment) that somehow time-outs, loss of privileges and natural consequences involve coddling children. When applied effectively and consistently, behavior modification principles have actually been demonstrated to be more effective than corporal punishment in increasing positive child behavior/decreasing problem behaviors. The big thing to keep in mind here is discipline must be effective and consistent and not administered out of parental emotional dyscontrol.
ETA: I am a fairly strict parent. There is no chance I will be saying the same thing 20 times to my son before he listens or trying to bargain or reason with him. Those are not behavior modification strategies - they are poorly applied or misunderstanding of behavioral principles that need remediation quickly if the parent plans to have a well-disciplined child.
So there was a video that came out yesterday about a teenager getting whoopped by his uncle for acting like a thug on Facebook. I feel a little embarrassed for the teen but I think his uncle did the right thing and, eventhough Im not a parent, I think it should be used in some occasions (not all of em tho)
So what do you think? Do you consider whipping children as discipline or child-abuse?
mas23
though I feel a good spanking should be used rarely and I am not sure about using on teens, it is just a form of dicipline and certainly not child abuse. Beating a kid, slapping him or her, tieing them up. these are forms of child abuse.
Speaking as a parent, although my kids are grown now, I have come to the conclusion that hitting kids is everything to do with the parent venting their own frustrations and very little to do with punishment or changing their behavior. There are far better and more effective ways of achieving a result than violence.
Whipping to me is a form of abuse. I am sure I have upset many people in my life and had they whipped me for it I would certainly have been able to take them to court for assault....
I don't think corporal punishment is acceptable ( I would exclude a gentle smack on the fleshy part of the bum as a very rare exception. I think smacking is completely pointless but I don't think it harms children as long as you tell them why and only use it as a last resort).
Hitting people as a form of discipline to me is completely useless and rather counter-intuitive. All it does in my opinion is either breed resentment and more anger or humiliates and demeans which is also the sure way to ensure even more trouble ahead.
I was brought up by a very strict Father who never once hit me ( or smacked me for that matter). A sense of right and wrong was instilled into me from a very early age and I was always assumed to have known exactly what I had done wrong and made to think upon my misdeeds. I think it is far more important to teach kids from an early age that "No" means "No" not maybe. And to follow up with punishment such as grounding, withdrawals of privileges etc... it is about consistency.
Whipping someone or beating them is the way to a more angry human being who is more likely to go out and repeat that cycle of abuse. I see it as completely unproductive.
I also think respect goes both ways and you can't expect someone ( kid or adult) to respect them if your answer to everything is to beat the crap out of them.
I know that for me using the stick would be utterly pointless. I do not respond to the stick but to the carrot so to speak.
Discipline and respect for others has to be instilled from a very early age. A Toddler knows the difference between right and wrong. Hitting them might make them scared of you but fear and respect are two different things.
Whipping a teenager IMO would only make him so enraged and humiliated that the resentment he/she will harbour is bound to come out at some point in potentially violent outburts defeating the object of the exercise.
At the end of the day violence does breed violence and though I am certainly not a pacifist I think we have to re-evalue our standards when we think it is a good and desirable thing to whip someone .
When we resort to violence we basically accept and declare that we have lost the argument in a way and ran out of options, we are admitting defeat. It is about making us feel better rather than truly solving anything. It is to me a sign of great weakness rather than one of power.
I know that had anyone , family or not humiliated me and beaten me I would have never, ever forgiven them , especially as a teenager. Revenge and rage would have been on my mind, not thinking about my actions and trying to become a better person.
Discipline can be acchieved without corporal punishment, but it must be a well thought out and consistent policy. I do believe in punishment but find the idea of whipping someone abhorrent and completely barbaric.
It can be achieved but this doesn't mean an occassional pop or even whipping (depending on what we are talking about) is child abuse. It is time the government stay out of our lives. If a child is repeated beaten or has phisical signs of being mis-treated that is a different story.
You turned out fine, you say, I am sure you did. Our kids were swatted from time to tiime and all are great adults, good citizens, honest and hard working. Our grandkids were smacked on the bottom less than our kids, they too are fine. Whether a mom or dad lays a hand on a kid doesn't determine totally what these kids will be like as adults, how they are treated and loved is what makes the difference.
Nita
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