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Old 01-11-2011, 02:14 PM
 
12,436 posts, read 11,943,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
The pro-gun lobby is going to go on the offensive big time over the Gifford thing because it is big. This could be the turning point in the entire sorry history of handgun ownership in America. I have not heard of a gun killing anyone by itself but neither have I ever heard of anyone shooting someone without a gun.

Maybe someone could explain to me why guns are secured on military bases because I understand this is the practice. For many years I was a civilian contractor for a para-military employer and I observed weapons being secured before officers were allowed into the facilities or offices. Hmmmm. A gun is an offensive weapon. It is less capable as defensive armament. Want proof? Recently a lone gunman took out four armed members of the Seattle, WA police force as they completed reports at breakfast.

I get that some members of the U.S. citizenry want the right to keep and bear arms... because it is in the Constitution and some because it makes them feel like it will give them an edge in the constant fight for survival in the rural jungles of the untamed American frontier but it is a debate that should be revisited. Some older legal and social contracts have been revised due to the changing era's since they were composed. The 2nd Amendment has been causing a lot of needless bloodshed and anguish and needs some revision.
I agree with the above statements. I don't read the second amendment to extend to everyone and to every type of gun. I believe the fed govt. and state govt can regulate the ownership of weapons; however, to end the confusion I would be for amending the constitution to state that precisely.
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Old 01-11-2011, 02:17 PM
 
45,542 posts, read 27,152,040 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
And people with guns kill with guns.
And people with knives intent on killing someone will kill someone.

And people with box cutters intent on killing someone will kill someone.

And Islamists who want to stone someone to death will stone someone to death.

What's the common thread here? People.
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Old 01-11-2011, 02:19 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,032,019 times
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Guns don't kill people, people kill people... of course people with guns use guns to kill people but I suppose that's just a minor detail.
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Old 01-11-2011, 02:21 PM
 
12,436 posts, read 11,943,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
And people with knives intent on killing someone will kill someone.

And people with box cutters intent on killing someone will kill someone.

And Islamists who want to stone someone to death will stone someone to death.

What's the common thread here? People.
I don't think as many people would have been injured or even killed with the weapons above, and if they are effective weapons why can't we just get rid of the guns?

I have no objection to anyone carrying a concealed rock or even a concealed brick...we don't need no stinking guns for protection.
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Old 01-11-2011, 02:21 PM
 
5,341 posts, read 6,518,435 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
Well the Arizona killer did not kill by "Accident" he intentionally killed. Do you have any statistics comparing the number of doctors who intentionally killed their patients with the number of deaths intentionally caused with a firearm?
No? I did not think so.
Read the post I commented on
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Old 01-11-2011, 02:23 PM
 
Location: in my imagination
13,601 posts, read 21,385,992 times
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A criminal with a gun can murder a person or some, unfortunate yes but.....


A criminal government with guns can murder millions


So I don't agree that only police and the government deserve guns. Just today in Maryland is a story about cops shooting a unarmed person. Where is the call to ban guns from the police?
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Old 01-11-2011, 02:25 PM
 
5,341 posts, read 6,518,435 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post

we don't need no stinking guns for protection.
10 things non-gun people should know about CCW holders.

1. We don’t carry firearms so that we can ignore other basics of personal safety. Every permit holder that I know realizes that almost all dangerous situations can be avoided by vigilance, alertness and by simply making wise choices about where one goes and what one does. We don’t walk down dark alleys. We lock our cars. We don’t get intoxicated in public or hang out around people who do. We park our cars in well lighted spots and don’t hang out in bad parts of town where we have no business. A gun is our last resort, not our first.

2. We don’t think we are cops, spies, or superheros. We aren’t hoping that somebody tries to rob the convenience store while we are there so we can shoot a criminal. We don’t take it upon ourselves to get involved in situations that are better handled by a 911 call or by simply standing by and being a good witness. We don’t believe our guns give us any authority over our fellow citizens. We also aren't here to be your unpaid volunteer bodyguard. We'll be glad to tell you where we trained and point you to some good gun shops if you feel you want to take this kind of responsibility for your personal safety. Except for extrordinary circumstances your business is your business, don't expect us to help you out of situations you could have avoided.

3. We are LESS likely, not more likely, to be involved in fights or “rage” incidents than the general public. We recognize, better than many unarmed citizens, that we are responsible for our actions. We take the responsibility of carrying a firearm very seriously. We know that loss of temper, getting into fights or angrily confronting someone after a traffic incident could easily escalate into a dangerous situation. We are more likely to go out of our way to avoid these situations. We don’t pull our guns to settle arguments or to attempt to threaten people into doing what we want.

4. We are responsible gun owners. We secure our firearms so that children and other unauthorized people cannot access them. Most of us have invested in safes, cases and lock boxes as well as other secuity measures to keep our firearms secure. Many of us belong to various organizations that promote firearms safety and ownership.

5. Guns are not unsafe or unpredictable. Modern firearms are well made precision instruments. Pieces do not simply break off causing them to fire. A hot day will not set them off. Most modern firearms will not discharge even if dropped. There is no reason to be afraid of a gun simply laying on a table or in a holster. It is not going to discharge on its own.

6. We do not believe in the concept of “accidental discharges”. There are no accidental discharges only negligent discharges or intentional discharges. We take responsibility for our actions and have learned how to safely handle firearms. Any case you have ever heard of about a gun “going off” was the result of negligence on somebody’s part. Our recognition of our responsibility and familiarity with firearms makes us among the safest firearms owners in America.

7. Permit holders do their best to keep our concealed weapons exactly that: concealed. However, there are times with an observant fellow citizen may spot our firearm or the print of our firearm under our clothes. We are very cognizant that concerns about terrorism and crime are in the forefront of the minds of most citizens. We also realize that our society does much to condition our fellow citizens to have sometimes irrational fears about firearms. We would encourage citizens who do happen to spot someone carrying a firearm to use good judgment and clear thinking if they feel to need to take action. Please recognize that it’s very uncommon for a criminal to use a holster. However, if you feel the need to report having spotted a firearm we would ask that you please be specific and detailed in your call to the police or in your report to a store manager or private security. Please don’t generalize or sensationalize what you observed. Comments like “there’s a guy running around in the store with a gun” or even simply “I saw a man with a gun in the store” could possibly cause a misunderstanding as to the true nature of the incident.

8. The fact that we carry a firearm to any given place does not mean that we believe that place to be inherently unsafe. If we believe a place to be unsafe, most of us would avoid that place all together if possible. However, we recognize that trouble could occur at any place and at any time. Criminals do not observe “gun free zones”. If trouble does come, we do not want the only armed persons to be perpetrators. Therefore, we don't usually make a determination about whether or not to carry at any given time based on "how safe" we think a location is.

9. Concealed weapon permit holders are an asset to the public in times of trouble. The fact that most permit holders have the good judgment to stay out of situations better handled by a 911 call or by simply being a careful and vigilant witness does not mean that we would fail to act in situations where the use of deadly force is appropriate to save lives. Review of high profile public shooting incidents shows that when killers are confronted by armed resistance they tend to either break off the attack and flee or choose to end their own life. Lives are saved when resistance engages a violent criminal. Lives are lost when the criminal can do as he pleases.

10. The fact that criminals know that some of the population may be armed at any given time helps to deter violence against all citizens. Permit holders don’t believe that every person should necessarily be armed. We recognize that some people may not be temperamentally suited to carry a firearm or simply may wish not to for personal reasons. However we do encourage you to respect our right to arm ourselves. Even if you choose not to carry a firearm yourself please oppose measures to limit the ability of law abiding citizens to be armed. As mentioned before: criminals do not observe “gun free zones”. Help by not supporting laws that require citizens to be unarmed victims.

The United States Constitution (c) 1791. All Rights reserved.
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Old 01-11-2011, 02:25 PM
 
12,436 posts, read 11,943,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Guns don't kill people, people kill people... of course people with guns use guns to kill people but I suppose that's just a minor detail.
How about we allow everyone to have a gun but it has to be one of those old muzzle loaders. You know the ones that are 6 ft. long and take 5 minutes to reload. You would be better off using a brick.
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Old 01-11-2011, 02:27 PM
 
12,436 posts, read 11,943,270 times
Reputation: 3159
Quote:
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
A criminal with a gun can murder a person or some, unfortunate yes but.....


A criminal government with guns can murder millions


So I don't agree that only police and the government deserve guns. Just today in Maryland is a story about cops shooting a unarmed person. Where is the call to ban guns from the police?
I would go along with that. We could give them muzzle loaders. Seems to work pretty well in Britain.
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Old 01-11-2011, 02:30 PM
 
19,023 posts, read 25,955,711 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
Those are some pretty telling statistics. I see no need at all for handguns.
You probably won't untill you need one, and then it might be too late.
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