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Exactly. Inner City is a perfect case of metonymy. I don't see why people are getting so hot under the collar about it. I'm simply pointing it out because i can't stand the use of a word to substitute another word when it comes off as condescending and politely insulting. LOL!!
Look...i see this desegregation/ busing thing this way...
I'm completely sympathetic to the notion that upward mobility means better schools for your children. NOTHING wrong with that! I want the best schools for my child too. I've just drained my whole bank account getting my son through college. I'm a proponent of education...and a strong one at that.
Busing was seen as a remedy for poor performing schools, and it apparently had more negative results in the minds of some people than positive results. So let's just say for the sake of this argument that it's had no better than a 50/50 success rate, which isn't very good...admittedly.
I can also understand that when you live in a nice community that you worked very hard to afford that features good schools, bringing in children from circumspect neighborhoods AT BEST would and SHOULD cause some consternation. I have no issue with that view.
My problem with some people here is that they fail to realize that those children from tough circumstances need to be educated by some means. Now of course, this should be done at their local schools in a perfect world. Obviously, that's not the case in many areas. That doesn't mean that those kids should be bused into yours or my school district. It means that their schools need to be fixed.
But understand...these children are OUR problem. They're American citizens. They aren't going anywhere. You can sit in your leafy 'burb and pretend that these kids are expendable, or that if their parents don't involve themselves in the betterment of their own children, that it's not your problem! IT IS YOUR PROBLEM! IT'S MY PROBLEM. You can continue to scream about how it's absurd to keep "throwing money at the problem" (something those on the right can't stop saying), but we'd damn well better be throwing SOMETHING at the problem. If not money, then we'd better find an alternative.
Just seems quite odd when i see how detached some people are from the world around them just because everything seems honky-dory in their own world. Your own world lies inside of another world...better take a look outside.
"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to desertdetroiter again."
Excellent post, sir! I am enjoying the level headed points being raised in this thread so far today.
One thing I've learned, is that sometimes we have to show people why it's important to help people they may be detached from. My personal goal is to help these low-performing kids in bad neighborhoods by opening "save haven" centers across the street from the schools, with tutoring, after school activities, field trips, mentoring, and ex-military members who have seen the outside world but can relate to the kids in the neighborhood. Someone who lives out in the suburbs may wonder what's in it for them, but usually when you challenge the conservative types to live up to their "charity over government" or their patriotism, it's an easier conversation.
LOL...i didn't trash the Republican Party, nor did i trash the Tea Party. I even said that i have no problem with people joining them. I didn't trash the people affiliated with them at all. Where? The only thing i said is that they're hostile to black people. That's a fact jack...or my opinion disguised as my own set of facts. I don't have a right to my opinion?
The Tea Party is no more hostile toward blacks than blacks are to themselves. Sounds kinda ridiculous when you put it that way, huh?
And yes, you did trash the Tea Party with your ASSumptions that they have ulterior motives in de-integrating the school districts.
I agree with everything you said. In a previous post, I said I don't mind how a person votes, especially if they did their research and agree with the ideology. My issue is only with the hypocrisy of calling Republicans racist for racist policies of 30+ years ago and giving a pass to Democrats for racist policies of 40+ years ago.
Middle and higher class Blacks are insulted by Democrats because they tend to lump the entire "Black community" into one voting group that is usually packaged with handout policies aimed at poor Blacks. It brings up a stereotypical and extremely incorrect "most Blacks are poor" argument.
I agree with you that most middle and upper income Blacks are Democrat, but obviously not all since that 10% Republican group comes from somewhere. To further my tangent about insulted high/middle income Blacks, members of this group AND even some of the poor Blacks may not want handouts, they may want handup policies, they may be for tax cuts to reduce their incomes, etc. To lump them in with an entire group solely by skin color is very insulting. It's actually insulting to poor Blacks too, because I know MANY who don't agree with handouts and are hardworking with personal responsibility for their own lives. Many don't like seeing non-working members of their own families receiving an undeserved handout while they are unqualified for help simply because they have a job. Much of these insulting and condescending policies are still in place since the 60s and has destroyed a major portion of poor Black society. I'm not saying get rid of help for poor people, I'm saying turn the handouts into a job / educational training program and only give checks to disabled and elderly people who can't work.
We see the insults all the time with politicians and the media when they reference policies and the "Black vote" together.
This is the internet, everyone lives in a mansion that has been paid off. We also have huge salaries, toned bodies and work hard every day of our lives.
You're not the only one paying taxes. The people in poor districts pay taxes too. Your "dime" isn't any bigger than anyone elses dime. And stop with the "inner city" nonsense and just say black because that's what you mean. Inner city schools aren't nearly the only schools facing major problems...in case you didn't know. There are plenty of underperforming schools in rural districts.
Why would I say black? There are whites and Hispanics in the inner city, too. So no, that's not what I meant.
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Now i do agree that in a lot of districts, busing is quite stupid. I don't even think most kids even want to be bused into another district. Perhaps the remedy for good schools doesn't lie in busing. I'm willing to buy that.
Okay. But why do you think doing away with busing is racist then? Your whole argument here lies in your belief that possibly segregating schools by doing away with busing is a racist tactic of the Tea Party that has nothing to do with education or economics...right? But now you agree that busing may not be the answer to our education woes of poorly performing students and schools. See, I told you, it has nothing to do with race!
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But all this nonsense about how i don't want "my kids to be surrounded by kids who do not have a good upbringing" is nonsense. Which assumes that all the kids where you presently live have good upbringings. Even still, those kids with bad upbringings are HERE...and they aren't going anywhere. You're already surrounded by them no matter how leafy your suburb is. They have to be educated somehow....they can't be swept under the rug. Your children will have to deal with these people in one way or another. You can pay now, or you can pay later, but you're gonna pay.
It's not nonsense. Why would I want my kid surrounded by people who might adversely affect his future? Parents try so hard to keep their kid surrounded by good people that will have a positive affect on him/her...so why wouldn't I extend this sympathy to the school my child attends?
The community we live in does have a great school system. The Milwaukee Public School system is horrendous, so the suburbs have created their own schools to make up for this. MPS brings down the average for the state, that's how bad it is. Much of the district is comprised of urban black youth, yes, and they are poor. One of the suburbs has a higher black population and their school system is fine. So it has nothing to do with race, it has to do with upbringing. The suburban area has more middle class families who focus on their kids' education and instill that type of value system in them. The inner city parents don't, white or black.
Oh, and they do bring some of the inner city kids over here to Shorewood on some kind of voucher program, from what I understand. These kids seem to do better than they would have in MPS (although not as good as the kids who are zoned for these schools), from what I've heard. I have no direct experience with any school system aside from the one I went through as a youth, so I am speaking only from what I've heard others say, and there seems to be a consensus that MPS/inner city schools are horrible, but not from lack of funding.
And no, I'm not sweeping anybody under the rug, the problem goes much deeper than just education. I believe we need to address the welfare problem in this country before education can adequately be addressed. As others have said, the generational poverty thing has to stop, and as soon as the parents realize they can pull themselves out of their current situation, the sooner they will start raising their kids to believe the same.
Also, note that I have been arguing FOR a public school system that is free for all, I believe in the value of a basic education and that it benefits all of society.
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Again, this all points to race, and i'm surprised that you guys think that you aren't as transparent as you actually are. I'm not saying that you're all racist for being against busing, but please, spare me the drivel about how race plays no role in this stuff. It's in the forefront of the issue no matter what you say.
It really doesn't point to race. You are projecting again. No matter what you or anybody says, I will never agree that busing a child across town and wasting their time will be beneficial. Give me ONE good reason for it and maybe I will give you some respect on this topic. Until you can put the race card away, there is really no response I can give you.
It doesn't, but when it comes to school integration race like the bottom, top, and middle line.
No, that's not true, it's not really about integration/segregation, it's about economics and what is better for the kids. It has been proven time and time again that busing helps no one, it has also been proven that throwing money at a problem like education does not help, either. Busing is not the answer, and neither is throwing the R word around.
Well because current disparities are directly a result of past racist policies. In turn, stereotypes of races are reaffirmed thus causing a disincentive to invest in poor communities, which are minority communities. It's a vicious cycle. So it's not only race, but also class.
Past racist policies that have no bearing on today. Why can't people go to the school they are zoned for, even if that means more blacks will be together and more whites will be together? That's how things naturally sort themselves out anyway, so why are we forcing something different?
Look..i'm not one to yell racism very often. In fact, i almost NEVER do it. But i'm not some mealy-mouthed negro a la Michael Steele either. I say what needs to be said. My response was simply the truth.
Go back to the post i responded to and tell me that he didn't mean black people!
Wow, so now Michael Steele is what, a black guy trying to act white? I forgot the term for it now. Anyway, you think this just b/c he's a Republican? You have now destroyed any credibility you had with me...you go around saying you are not bashing Republicans but what are you doing now?
I already responded to the post, you can take it or leave it, I'm not going to back track 15 pages to figure it out when I already had it figured out from the get-go. You. Race card. Simple.
"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to desertdetroiter again."
Excellent post, sir! I am enjoying the level headed points being raised in this thread so far today.
One thing I've learned, is that sometimes we have to show people why it's important to help people they may be detached from. My personal goal is to help these low-performing kids in bad neighborhoods by opening "save haven" centers across the street from the schools, with tutoring, after school activities, field trips, mentoring, and ex-military members who have seen the outside world but can relate to the kids in the neighborhood. Someone who lives out in the suburbs may wonder what's in it for them, but usually when you challenge the conservative types to live up to their "charity over government" or their patriotism, it's an easier conversation.
You should send your sentiments over to Jerry Brown, who just fired school reformists, swapping members who were strong on teacher accountability and charter school growth and replacing them with the status quo. School practitioners, teachers union supporters and criminals. For example, Bill Honig who used his position to siphon money into his wife's business (four counts). He bowed out because of the uproar it caused. Brown seems intent on bringing back the education system of 1976.
Conservatives have had little influence on education here. Teachers are predominantly Democrat and have been for 50 years. The Unions and school boards are all Democrats and now Brown's NEW hires are all Democrat (see a trend here). Liberal ideology has trashed our education system from the inside out, for years. Now they are openly trashing charter schools and trigger laws. Our education system is a nightmare.
You don't see it as an insult that what they are really saying is we don't need to fix the inner city schools we just need to sprinkle in some white kids to make things better?
Very good point. +1
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