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Old 01-16-2011, 09:25 AM
 
47,525 posts, read 69,687,395 times
Reputation: 22474

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pommysmommy View Post
That is the only thing that will save these bankrupt states.
That's exactly right. Everyone else has to tighten their belts but the government workers in certain big spending states expect they should not have to participate in this at all, they want to expect to live high on the hog while everyone else suffers.
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Old 01-16-2011, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
6,476 posts, read 7,322,267 times
Reputation: 7026
If Newt runs for President he has just guaranteed my vote.
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Old 01-16-2011, 09:36 AM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
6,476 posts, read 7,322,267 times
Reputation: 7026
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
You'd think with all these conservatives waving around the Constitution, having Constitution as bible classes, carrying about their pocket editions, and having Constitutional recitals on the floor of the Congress that you would at least be able to correctly quote the damned thing.
"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts AND PROVIDE for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;"
Which means we can't force fiscally responsible states to bail out states like California. Better they go bust than expect everyone to pay for their financial profligacy.
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Old 01-16-2011, 10:29 AM
 
Location: Lincoln County Road or Armageddon
5,020 posts, read 7,223,411 times
Reputation: 7311
Quote:
Originally Posted by ray1945 View Post
I find this hard to believe. A cop - who is part of the Florida Retirement System (FRS) - with 18 years of service would retire on 54% of the average of his highest 5 years of salary. Using the lowest six figure salary of $100k, that cop would have to have had a high 5 of $200k. Not very likely...

And, FYI, a teacher's pension after 30 years is less than 50% of his/her high 5, which for most of Florida will be under $50k. No Florida teacher becomes a rich retiree due to his/her pension....
What are you going to believe-actual facts or some guy on CD who says he knows somebody who knows somebody who retired with a six figure pension?
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Old 01-16-2011, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,464,288 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavaturaccioli View Post
Which means we can't force fiscally responsible states to bail out states like California. Better they go bust than expect everyone to pay for their financial profligacy.
And once you bail them out don't expect them to all of a sudden "get the light" because the spending will just start all over again.

The US has breached "moral hazard" in almost every segment.
The party at risk will behave differently knowing they do not have to face the consequences of that risk because the risk is eliminated.

"Too big to fail" means US taxpayers take the hit for someone else's bad decisions.
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Old 01-16-2011, 11:54 AM
 
Location: US, California - federalist
2,794 posts, read 3,677,542 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
What about our wasteful War on Poverty. The federal government has been pouring billions of dollars into Section 8 housing programs, food stamps, WIC, Medicaid, federal grants for poor schools, hospitals, Head Start programs. The result? More poverty than ever.
Considering that first world poverty is not considered real (third world) poverty; it could be claimed that the populace of the US is better off being subsidized than to have to north or south in order to participate in markets for labor.

Simplification of existing social safety nets could improve our economy while allowing US labor to become more competitive in a global economy. Unemployment compensation that conforms to existing laws and a federal doctrine could accomplish that goal in a market friendly manner and could be less expensive, than welfare, as we currently know it.
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Old 01-16-2011, 12:59 PM
 
59,029 posts, read 27,290,738 times
Reputation: 14274
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
You'd think with all these conservatives waving around the Constitution, having Constitution as bible classes, carrying about their pocket editions, and having Constitutional recitals on the floor of the Congress that you would at least be able to correctly quote the damned thing.
"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts AND PROVIDE for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;"
When you base your opinion on false info, it is no wonder you have the opinions you have.

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Note the comma AFTER "provide for the common Defence. And then ,"promote the general Welfare". Not provide the general Wefare as you posted.

Makes a BIG difference.
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Old 01-16-2011, 01:18 PM
 
Location: US, California - federalist
2,794 posts, read 3,677,542 times
Reputation: 484
ovcatto is quoting Article 1, Section 8 of our own federal Constitution.
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Old 01-16-2011, 01:25 PM
 
47,525 posts, read 69,687,395 times
Reputation: 22474
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
Considering that first world poverty is not considered real (third world) poverty; it could be claimed that the populace of the US is better off being subsidized than to have to north or south in order to participate in markets for labor.

Simplification of existing social safety nets could improve our economy while allowing US labor to become more competitive in a global economy. Unemployment compensation that conforms to existing laws and a federal doctrine could accomplish that goal in a market friendly manner and could be less expensive, than welfare, as we currently know it.
Keep in mind that our big extremely costly "safety nets" have made people more dependent than ever before. There are not only more poor than ever before, they are a very helpless kind of poor. They have lost all their work ethic, unlike the poor in past generations who could be hard working and clever.
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Old 01-16-2011, 01:41 PM
 
Location: US, California - federalist
2,794 posts, read 3,677,542 times
Reputation: 484
In my opinion, it has more to do with less effective public policy decisions that create more rather than less friction in the market for labor, than the loss of a work ethic due to any form of subsidy. Consider that subsidies in the agriculture sector have enabled a leap in productivity to the point where only two percent of the population is necessary to do what twenty-five percent did before subsidies.
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