Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-14-2011, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
37,801 posts, read 41,003,240 times
Reputation: 62194

Advertisements

Anyone ever read "Fordlandia: The Rise and Fall of Henry Ford's Forgotten Jungle City" by Greg Grandin?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-14-2011, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,076 posts, read 20,526,395 times
Reputation: 7807
Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
What in the hell are you talking about?

What I'm suggesting is that companies have no inkling of the idea of a social responsibility to either the nation or our people or even to their own employees. It's all bottom line profit, with no other consideration, and whatever harm they do in the relentless search for one more penny of profit is excused as simply the march of progress.

Since they won't voluntarily do right by their country and their workers, we ought to have tax and other policies which force them to accept a little less profit in exchange for the larger good of full employment here at home.

There's nothing wrong with capitalism, but there's a LOT wrong with unrestrained capitalism and until we force that discussion, our jobs will continue to leave.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-14-2011, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Va. Beach
6,391 posts, read 5,166,596 times
Reputation: 2283
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
Ford, GM and Chrysler all have union operations, in addition to non-union and foreign plants.

Yet, Ford remained viable and the other two did not. Consequently, it seems to me that unions weren't the problem: management was.
Actually, ford did not capitulate as grandly to the unions as the other 2 did, that's why.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-14-2011, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Chicagoland
41,325 posts, read 44,937,590 times
Reputation: 7118
"If only the UAW would allow it".

That's the problem right there - they shouldn't be "allowed" to stop it.

Amazing facility - should be on these shores, if not for the union.

Disgusting.

Great find Roy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-14-2011, 09:55 AM
 
22,768 posts, read 30,727,592 times
Reputation: 14745
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
What I'm suggesting is that companies have no inkling of the idea of a social responsibility to either the nation or our people or even to their own employees. It's all bottom line profit, with no other consideration, and whatever harm they do in the relentless search for one more penny of profit is excused as simply the march of progress.

Since they won't voluntarily do right by their country and their workers, we ought to have tax and other policies which force them to accept a little less profit in exchange for the larger good of full employment here at home.

There's nothing wrong with capitalism, but there's a LOT wrong with unrestrained capitalism and until we force that discussion, our jobs will continue to leave.
So you want to suspend the rules of capitalism, since they aren't favorable to unions.

Even though these rules are what allow me to make the choices I want as a consumer, and affect my economic freedoms. I'm about to buy a Toyota here in the next few weeks because I think they are superior to Ford, GM, and Chrysler. What you're suggesting is that the U.S. Government should FORCE me to pay a higher price for my vehicle, in an government-sponsored attempt to benefit Ford and GM, so unions can have their completely arbitrary salary and workplace demands met.

That is EXACTLY what I was referring to in my last post, about freedom, stable markets, and the rule of law. The reason this country is great is because we aren't a crappy third-world banana republic, who creates protectionist barriers for any industry that's suffering. We should continue be known throughout the world as a place where foreign capital is safe, where foreign companies are welcome to ship their goods, and where competition ensures that only the smartest, most efficient companies will survive. As Americans we all benefit from being the world's biggest and fairest marketplace to ALL buyers and ALL sellers, whether they are Americans, Japanese, Germans, Chinese, or anyone.

Last edited by le roi; 01-14-2011 at 10:04 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-14-2011, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,261,277 times
Reputation: 4269
I think that unions have had too much to do with the cost of autos in the US because of the way they "worked" the auto makers. They had a plan all along about which of them to strike and "work" and the other two went along and that just went on longer than they could afford.

However, I believe that if the US didn't have the 2nd highest corporate tax rate in the world many of them could have stayed around. Yep, the auto makers got pushed around so long and what happened to the companies after the buy outs of them at the beginning of the Obama administration convinced me completely. Is the government running the companies now? Are the companies running them? Who actually owns more of them than anyone else? Why of course the UAW came out on top in both those companies because of the laws that were passed to aid the UAW and all its Democrat voters.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-14-2011, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Chandler, AZ
5,800 posts, read 6,566,607 times
Reputation: 3151
Now comes word that the UAW has set aside a whopping $60,000,000 as a treasure chest with which to send its reps to all of the foreign automakers in the Deep South in an attempt to snag some new members.

They really don't get it; all of those foreign automakers are acutely aware of what unions have done to industry in this country, and certainly the US auto industry, as well as desecrating huge swaths of the Midwest, ramapant corruption, and too many other things to mention which are not conducive to being successful.

It's no accident that most of those auto plants are several hundred miles from woebegone Detroit.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-14-2011, 10:12 PM
 
48,502 posts, read 96,838,702 times
Reputation: 18304
The auto unions have fought for years to limit autpomation and got their results.When countries such as China are becoming THE market for automobile ;do you really thnik tehy are going to invest much in building them here in the future. They will only do so on the governamntsd dollars but spend much of their moeny in other markets.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-20-2011, 06:59 AM
 
Location: Fortaleza, Northeast of Brazil
3,981 posts, read 6,788,987 times
Reputation: 2459
Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
the U.S. maintains the ideology of free markets and globalization... or at least we maintained that image, up until a financial crisis jeopardized the Wall Street status quo, and we started down the road of some kind of fascist command economy.

Brazil has a lot of populist / socialist tendencies within the population, and there is less respect for markets, democracy, foreign capital, transparency, and the rule of law. They also have terrible infrastructure, problems with roads and ports and useless bureacracies that manage these things. They aren't "third world Banana Republic", and they aren't Iron-fisted like China, but they also aren't as free and stable as the US, Japan, South Korea, Australia, or Europe; although from what I understand they are making great strides.

The "populist / socialist tendencies within the population" is exactly what will make a Brazil a better place year after year, with more economic growth, more democracy (not corporate dictatorship) and more rule of the law.

We don't need any lessons from the American right wing to learn how to manage our country. Our country is going very well with our "populist / socialist" leaders. Thank you for you advice, but we don't need it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-20-2011, 07:22 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,771,962 times
Reputation: 24863
American and global business confirms the septic tank analogy. The biggest thieves float to the top.

I wonder how big the Brazilian’s bribe to the Ford Motor Company was?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:23 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top