Time for the US government to be honest and declare a depression? (death, Obama)
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I am skeptical that Wall Street was ever an indicator of Main Street's successes.
The stock market is considered the a leading economic indicator. Unemeployment is a lagging economic indicator. it's usually the LAST thing to improve after an economic downturn or recession.
How did you figure that he was referring to the "the government?" All he posted was the pronoun "we," as in all of us, not "the government." To claim the recession/depression is over is delusional.
If you want to help the average citizen, get government interference out of the free-market and it will recover. The more government involves itself in the economy, the longer this economic downturn will last. The only thing these various unconstitutional stimuli have done is take even more money out of the economy. Contrary to what delusional leftists believe, government is the problem, not the solution.
The stock market is considered the a leading economic indicator. Unemeployment is a lagging economic indicator. it's usually the LAST thing to improve after an economic downturn or recession.
Haven't seen that data today. Isn't it down like it was yesterday?
If the economic downturn is over, as you claim, why are people still "hurting, business closing," etc., etc.?
Should have added a to the first two parts. What I see is too much of an argument about symptoms over problems. If an indicator goes up and the response is yipee we are doing better now, but more people are filing for unemployment its not much to go yipee over. But since people like simplistic answers it tends to be couched that way. What underlies the situation are very deep problems that are hardly even acknowledged by most of those who call themselves our "leaders".
So while by someone's defination the recession may be over the problem is not. What matters is that nobody is looking at the problems.
When you add in all the heat from the political retoric on all sides it makes it increasingly less likely that we are going to make any attempts at dealing with the problems before it becomes too late. By "we" I mean all of us, government, people, spin doctors and industrial interests who are a part of it. Because everyone has some role, for good or bad, and you can't fix problems in little pieces. Nor can they be fixed by retoric or blame or just saying we're doomed anyway. What is commonly missing of late are ideas and discussion of them without it becoming a shouting match.
The stock market is considered the a leading economic indicator. Unemeployment is a lagging economic indicator. it's usually the LAST thing to improve after an economic downturn or recession.
That may have held a lot more water when those Wall Street darlings actually produced their goods in the US.
When they expanded..it was US mfg expansion.
When they had profits..it was US based revenue that gave them profits.
Now they expand..in China, India or name your favorite low cost country.
Now they have profits...based on foreign revenue that is outpacing US revenue.
The US is transitioning..I don't think Wall Street is any good leading indicator of the health of the US economy.
You want the government to be honest? Are you kidding me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02
We are now in the 4th year of this economic slump with no end in sight. Yes the market bottomed in March 2009 and the recession officially ended in June, things have only stabilized since then. They really have not improved. We have hit bottom and basically have stayed there for the past two years. This is no ordinary recession. In the last depression the economy bottomed out in 1933 but there was so sustainable recovery until World War II. I think it's time the government be honest and declare we are in a depression which will take 5-10 years to recover from.
Massive innovation in the terms of regulating and monitoring NAFTA and the corporations who have taken federal welfare money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead
Sadly, I think you are probably right. Bad news for many, many Americans and incumbent politicians. If you are right, they will all be sent packing, including Mr. 0. I just don't see the mechanisms for pulling rapidly out of this one. And if it does happen, I will be strongly suspicious that it is yet another bubble.
I think we have done enough deregulation, tax cutting, and cheap credit. What we really need now is massive innovation, at a systemic level. Major new industries or infrastructures are needed, but I haven't seen much beyond the I-PAD, Facebook, and Netflix lately. Until that happens, we will be skidding along the bottom.
I can only go by what he actually posted. I am no mind-reader. If he meant "the government" instead of "we" then he should have said so.
Explained this in a different post, but "we" is the whole. No one part of the whole can fix a problem. In our world the fifteen minutes of fame has gotten too long, so now we like litte quick summaries of a sentence. This can't communicate an idea. So we hear the shortened version and miss the whole context.
The government, as a group of individuals guided by laws and conventions, must take responsibility to look at the reality rather than fight within itself. People must learn to see beyond the quicky summaries that fit in a sentence and look at all the ideas can represent, not just now but later. I hope we have not been dummed down so much this is lost. And instead of agendas and sides, everyone needs to start thinking in terms of ideas over partasian sides. All the hate that is being spewed is obscuring the deepening problems, but it makes people feel better when they have nice pat answers so they don't ask the questions that need to be asked.
In short "we" is everyone who is effected because everyone is a part.
The stock market is considered the a leading economic indicator. Unemeployment is a lagging economic indicator. it's usually the LAST thing to improve after an economic downturn or recession.
But that has changed alot. Rememeber the stock markets now include investment in more and more of the world market. Its nothign like i the past. Comapnies know where ther growth is and its not here or especailly europe.
Should have added a to the first two parts. What I see is too much of an argument about symptoms over problems. If an indicator goes up and the response is yipee we are doing better now, but more people are filing for unemployment its not much to go yipee over. But since people like simplistic answers it tends to be couched that way. What underlies the situation are very deep problems that are hardly even acknowledged by most of those who call themselves our "leaders".
So while by someone's defination the recession may be over the problem is not. What matters is that nobody is looking at the problems.
When you add in all the heat from the political retoric on all sides it makes it increasingly less likely that we are going to make any attempts at dealing with the problems before it becomes too late. By "we" I mean all of us, government, people, spin doctors and industrial interests who are a part of it. Because everyone has some role, for good or bad, and you can't fix problems in little pieces. Nor can they be fixed by retoric or blame or just saying we're doomed anyway. What is commonly missing of late are ideas and discussion of them without it becoming a shouting match.
The primary cause of this economic downturn, like the 1999-2001, 1989-1991, and the 1974-1984 "recessions" is a combination of factors with one similarity between all of them - the price of oil. In each of the recessions, including this one, it was preceded by skyrocketing oil prices.
Had Democrats not blocked every attempt to increase domestic oil production since 1990, we would not be in this situation today. In 1990 we imported 37% of our oil. Today we import more than 56%. The more we import, the less control we have over the price, and the more unpredictable our economy becomes.
So if we want to avoid these future economic downturns, it would be prudent to increase domestic oil production.
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to the first two parts. What I see is too much of an argument about symptoms over problems. If an indicator goes up and the response is yipee we are doing better now, but more people are filing for unemployment its not much to go yipee over. But since people like simplistic answers it tends to be couched that way. What underlies the situation are very deep problems that are hardly even acknowledged by most of those who call themselves our "leaders".
