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Their top individual rate is 13%. Ours is 35%. In fact part of Switzerland's success comes from its status as a low tax haven. Property taxes are almost nothing.
History repeats itself. Things were pretty good in the 90's-2007, too.
the reasons the economy of each era collapsed are the same, easy credit. however, the root cause was different. in the 2008 collapse it was because the housing market was way overheated, and a large jump in oil prices was the trigger to kill the economy. in the 1929 crash, the problem was an overheated stock market, and the trigger for the collapse was a margin call that people couldnt meet without selling of their stocks and bonds. the other difference between the two eras was the debt load carried by the people and the government. both were about 65% of the GDP, where as in 2008 the debt loads were much closer to 90% of the GDP.
The OP included human rights as part of the criteria. American apartheid was well and alive then was it not?
Excellent point. Wages, living conditions, working conditions were not all that great for whites either. Plus, children worked in factories. But the rich barons were doing okay.
Since the most conservative posters on this forum seem to be possessed of exceptional self-confidence and certainty on complex topics like the national dept, the economy, health care, the root causes of environmental crises, civil rights, education, which government agencies are needed, etc., I must assume they have a solid example of how thing "should" be.
I am a concrete guy, I need a case study. Can any of you provide one or more examples of a low tax, small government sovereign nation that lasted at least a decade in the last 100 years with over 5 million citizens that has a vibrant economy, a strong middle class, decent human rights, laissez-faire economics, private, efficient self-regulation of education, social, and environmental quality, a free press, and free access to assault weapons for all? I would like to see an example of where all the brilliant suggestions I hear daily on this forum demonstrate their obvious superiority.
There is only one rule: no US states. We all know they receive immense pork from the feds.
Have at it.
Your premise is wrong. The term "conservatopia" (which I assume you coined) implies a utopian society based on conservative principles. Conservatives are not about envisioning, much less constructing, utopias. That's a pastime engaged in by left-leaning ideologues almost exclusively.
By contrast conservatives believe that each individual should be free pursue his own vision of happiness. Because it is an individual thing there is not a unified or coherent ideal to which conservatives subscribe. What I need for my happiness may not be what you need for your happiness. But we both need a framework of civic association that allows both of us to pursue (without guarantee of success) our separate dreams without undue barriers. I'm not making this stuff up. Our Founding Fathers did and enshrined these principles in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution--documents that the Left now find meaningless.
Your premise is wrong. The term "conservatopia" (which I assume you coined) implies a utopian society based on conservative principles. Conservatives are not about envisioning, much less constructing, utopias. That's a pastime engaged in by left-leaning ideologues almost exclusively.
By contrast conservatives believe that each individual should be free pursue his own vision of happiness. Because it is an individual thing there is not a unified or coherent ideal to which conservatives subscribe. What I need for my happiness may not be what you need for your happiness. But we both need a framework of civic association that allows both of us to pursue (without guarantee of success) our separate dreams without undue barriers. I'm not making this stuff up. Our Founding Fathers did and enshrined these principles in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution--documents that the Left now find meaningless.
Reasonable critique. Conservatives are not usually utopians. But rather than constantly talking trash, I would like to see an example of where their ideas actually work. I think we all know that completely myopic and self-centered approach is not and cannot be pursued on a finite planet, or in a country with $300 million people. That is the ideology of a cancer cell. We did that with the robber barons of the 1890s, when imperialism, rampant resource exploitation, child labor, unsafe working conditions, racism, grotesque inequality and monopolies, and unmitigated pollution were the norm. I think we all know that is no recipe for modern society, especially when China and India and a whole bunch of other countries want to follow our lead. I am fairly sure the founding fathers would have agreed there needs to be a sensible balance between personal liberty and larger social, ecological, and economic health.
It sometimes seems to me that the conservative movement is usually driven by hypocrisy sold as leadership. As if trashing your fellow citizens as unpatriotic, godless heathens, who wipe with the constitution is leadership. So, if you have the juice instead of hot air, show me an example of political vision and moral purity that effectively espouses conservative ideals anywhere.
the reasons the economy of each era collapsed are the same, easy credit. however, the root cause was different. in the 2008 collapse it was because the housing market was way overheated, and a large jump in oil prices was the trigger to kill the economy. in the 1929 crash, the problem was an overheated stock market, and the trigger for the collapse was a margin call that people couldnt meet without selling of their stocks and bonds. the other difference between the two eras was the debt load carried by the people and the government. both were about 65% of the GDP, where as in 2008 the debt loads were much closer to 90% of the GDP.
Thanks for pointing out the differences. I've never studied the roaring 20s. As for ideal American eras, it seems to me that the 1950s-60s was a period of greatly expanding wealth, perhaps because our manufacturing industry was leading the world at that time. I do not know if it was a very conservative period.
At the current time, My personal vote is for the E. Asian examples, like S. Korea, Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan and Japan. Those people seem to work very hard and do business well. I think the Japanese also have fairly strong social structures as well, but I welcome input from others.
I have pasted a graph of international tax rates below. It is incomplete and from 2005, so might have changed.
Seems like most of the European countries, although trending right in many cases, are still far left of even the Dems. Ireland and Iceland appear to have lower tax burdens than America, with low corporate and personal tax rates, but they are in the tank from the recent meltdown. They were apparently too globalized and exposed to the latest sleazefest. Switzerland does seem pretty low tax, and financially sound. Then again, their economy and tax haven status may not be typical. The UK and Norway also look interesting Finland and Sweden always seem impressive to me, but high tax.
Whoa! Look at Mexico...nevermind...
What about Australia and New Zealand?
Last edited by Fiddlehead; 01-28-2011 at 10:25 AM..
I am confident of conservative principles because I've seen them work my entire life.
All, that I've seen with liberalism is pain and misery.
Sorry, but that's all I have.
Life isn't fair. We will never all be equal.
Well Fiddlehead (the OP), you've asked and gotten nothing. This is the way Conservatives are, they have vague notions and ideals but are clueless about any action.
Their strategy is simply to damn all ideas from Democrats, all action from the Gov't is bad, and all non republicans are bad people. They are just there to destroy and empower big business even further.
The 8 miserable Bush/Cheney years were Conservatopia!
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