Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 01-31-2011, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Florida
77,003 posts, read 47,353,135 times
Reputation: 14796

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Perhaps had the U.S. chosen wisely during the Iranian revolution, Iran would not be our "enemy" today, something that could be applied to a number of other countries, most notably, Vietnam, and any number of Latin and South American countries as well.
There are two reasons why Iran hates us:

1. We installed and supported a tyrant in Iran.
2. When the tyrant was thrown out, we (Reagan admin) pushed Iraq to attack Iran and we even supplied Iraq with chemical weapons which were used against Iran.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-31-2011, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Florida
77,003 posts, read 47,353,135 times
Reputation: 14796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
I think you missed the context of want is meant by "losing" Egypt, we may well be losing Egypt as an ally in the world.

What is, or has been, 0bama's relationship with the Egyptian people and Mubarak, and how do the Egyptian people interpret it?
The relationship has not changed in 29 years. This has nothing to do with Obama, and the riots are not anti-Obama riots, or anti-west riots. It is telling though that the protestors are asking US and Europe to stand with them to support their cause. That shows they actually belive in the west.

Here is the same question for you. Everyone else has declined to answer:

If you are willing to place blame, then are you willing to give credit? If Egypt gains a moderate president through democratic elections, then will you say that Obama goes down as the president who brought democracy to Egypt? Will you do that, or will you only blame him in case it turns ugly?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-31-2011, 10:43 AM
 
11,135 posts, read 14,155,637 times
Reputation: 3696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
The relationship has not changed in 29 years. This has nothing to do with Obama, and the riots are not anti-Obama riots, or anti-west riots. It is telling though that the protestors are asking US and Europe to stand with them to support their cause. That shows they actually belive in the west.
And why not, Egypt has a fairly diverse population, much of it well aware of the benefits of being included in a modern western dominated world.

Once a person has been able to watch episodes of Mgyver in color they aren't exactly looking forward to living without it. I say, now is the best time to open a McDonald's franchise or the GAP. Better to win by coke and blue jeans than to invade another country in my opinion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-31-2011, 10:44 AM
 
Location: Southeast
4,301 posts, read 7,016,272 times
Reputation: 1464
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
2. When the tyrant was thrown out, we (Reagan admin) pushed Iraq to attack Iran..
?

Iraq invaded Iran in September 1980. That was 4 months before Reagan took office, and 2 before he was even elected. Iran quickly turned the tables and was whopping Saddam's ass for the rest of the war (through 1988).

Sorry, but you do not seem to be well informed on the Iran-Iraq war.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-31-2011, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
37,837 posts, read 21,936,847 times
Reputation: 13692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
We have supported a dictator in Egypt for 29 years and finally they are fed up with him. What blunt calls for democracy did Bush made to Egypt? As I remember it he gave them a 20 billion dollar bribe so they would support us in Iraq, and on top of that he gave them 1.3 billion annually so they would stick with us. Nah, all US presidents in the past 29 years are guilty of supporting a dictator, and I fear this will end up just like Iran. Thare is not much Obama can do about it.

But if you are willing to place blame, then are you willing to give credit? If Egypt gains a moderate president through elections, then will you say that Obama goes down in history books as the president who brought democracy to Egypt? Will you do that? Or will you only blame him in case it turns ugly?
Bush did show some criticism of Mubarak.

August 15, 2002|By Peter Slevin, Washington Post

The Bush administration will oppose any additional foreign aid for Egypt to protest the government's prosecution of human rights campaigner Saad Eddin Ibrahim and its poor treatment of pro-democracy organizations, administration sources said Wednesday.

The Ibrahim case makes it impossible for the administration to contemplate extra money for Egypt, according to a White House official who said President Bush will soon advise Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak in writing of his decision. Existing aid programs will not be affected.

Bush's decision to criticize Mubarak and connect Egypt's human rights performance to economic aid is a notable shift in policy toward a longtime ally considered essential to U.S. attempts to calm the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and remove Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-31-2011, 10:50 AM
 
Location: University City, Philadelphia
22,634 posts, read 14,881,489 times
Reputation: 15932
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeLucasLongLostChin View Post
People need to stop thinking american Presidents are worldwide omnipresent emperors.

Presidents have a lot less leverage than people like to think. Even William Buckley (a conservative favorite) claim that neocons have commited intellectual suicide by overrestimating the reach of the USA (and intervening in Iraq).

And it's very ironic how the same people who think the government should reduce in size because it is incompetent also except the president to fix everything, from the economy to stability in far away countries.

As if the US president is supposed to be some kind of collective world-daddy. While the US president is the leader of the heaviest nation, his executive power is quite limited compared to other world leaders.

Not everything is about the US. Sometimes it's good to mind your own business.
At last!

An intelligent comment!

Is this thread just an excuse by Obama-haters to have a bash fest?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-31-2011, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Sale Creek, TN
4,874 posts, read 4,989,927 times
Reputation: 6042
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
I kinda wonder what people expect the President to do. Egypt is a foreign country and, short of invading, our options for influencing what is going on are very limited.
Maybe earn his Nobel Peace Prize.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-31-2011, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Florida
77,003 posts, read 47,353,135 times
Reputation: 14796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie117 View Post
?

Iraq invaded Iran in September 1980. That was 4 months before Reagan took office, and 2 before he was even elected. Iran quickly turned the tables and was whopping Saddam's ass for the rest of the war.

Sorry, but you do not seem to be well informed on the Iran-Iraq war.
Yes, you are right, the war started several months before Reagan. The open US support for Iraq went on for the next eight years. It is what it is, and my post was not an anti-Reagan post, but to illustrate how US screwed up with Iran and why they hate us. Iran didn't exactly whup Iraq's butt. Neither side made significant gains, and Iran ended up losing far more troops than Iraq. They should have won since they had twice as many men, seven times as many choppers, more other aircraft etc. But of course it is tough to win when Iraq used chemical weapons.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-31-2011, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Florida
77,003 posts, read 47,353,135 times
Reputation: 14796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
Bush did show some criticism of Mubarak.
.
And how did that work out? Not very well, because we still gave them the money, and because he is still there. Yes, many presidents have made comments for show, but just for show. Heck, Bush Sr said he was going to cut aid to Israel too, but of course he didn't.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-31-2011, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
37,837 posts, read 21,936,847 times
Reputation: 13692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
The relationship has not changed in 29 years. This has nothing to do with Obama, and the riots are not anti-Obama riots, or anti-west riots. It is telling though that the protestors are asking US and Europe to stand with them to support their cause. That shows they actually belive in the west.

Here is the same question for you. Everyone else has declined to answer:

If you are willing to place blame, then are you willing to give credit? If Egypt gains a moderate president through democratic elections, then will you say that Obama goes down as the president who brought democracy to Egypt? Will you do that, or will you only blame him in case it turns ugly?
0bama is our president, and it will be his relationship with Mubarak that will be cemented in the minds of the people, not some previous president's.

0bama has stayed on the side lines, watching. He can claim no credit for any result here.

You tell me, has 0bama sided with the people or with Mubarak? If the Egyptian people think 0bama supported Mubarak, but not them, and Mubarak is given the boot, then how can 0bama claim credit for an Egypt w/o Mubarak?

The people in Egypt need to know that 0bama supports them, and that he supports freedom, and justice, because after this government sorts itself out, the people need to know that our country always supported them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top