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Old 01-31-2011, 09:50 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,488,465 times
Reputation: 35920

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
Every single person who lives long enough will have a pre-existing condition. Every person will either get sick, has been sick, or is currently sick, there is no way to escape this. So using the line that some how a person with a pre-existing condition is abnormal, is a ridiculous idea.
Y'know, I rarely agree with you, but I agree with this! Some people get their pre-existing conditions early in life, some later on, too.
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Old 02-01-2011, 08:16 AM
 
16,545 posts, read 13,430,621 times
Reputation: 4241
Lokk at the Marxists go in this thread. "If you have something better than me, YOU CAN'T HAVE IT!" What a huge bunch of cry babies!
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Old 02-01-2011, 08:59 AM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,434,384 times
Reputation: 9618
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoranrat View Post
The current system of coupling health care benefits to employment, IMHO, is stupid. Few if any developed countries do this. In most other countries where you work has nothing to do with what health care coverage you have available to you. But here in the U.S., it has almost everything to do with your health care coverage you can get and plays a huge part in what jobs you will take (or which jobs you can afford to quit due to loss of health coverage). That is just absurd!

There should be either a single-payer, Medicare for all type system. And/or there should be a private-provider based system but in which the entire U.S. population is treated as one big gigantic health insurance pool and market.

Anyway, the point is that where you work should have nothing to do with what health coverage you can get.

Imagine, say, if where you worked limited your options in terms of where you could shop for groceries or clothes or where your children could go to school, etc etc. For instance, if you worked at XYZ company, you could shop at certain stores at reasonable prices but would have to pay exhorbitant prices if you shopped elsewhere. And if you were fired or quit, you'd have to pay exhorbitant prices to shop anywhere. Well you would say that that is absurd. But is it not really any less absurd than saying that where you work determines what insurance you can get for reasonable coverage at a reasonable price.

Here are some articles that talk about this among many others:

Why We Should De-Couple Health Care From Employment

It's not too late for health care vouchers


healthcare should be decoupled from the government

and BTW...your could afford a singlepayer system as a taxpayer

single payer (meaning paid for by the WORKING taxpayer) will kill most americans

look at medicaid...(our CURRENT singlepayer system).....it covers about 32 million people (its currently up to 40 million people during this recession)...the ANNUAL cost....over 340 billion in 2008..projected to be 400 billion for this year alone....that's just to cover 30-40 million people.........what would it cost to cover our full population of 310 million..........somewhere in the range of 2.5-5 TRILLION....now divide that by the 120 million WORKERS (1040 filers) and you get 25k to 50k PER WORKING HOUSEHOLD PER YEAR.......single payer is unsustainable.,..........our government spends over 750 billion a year just on medicare/medicaid, and medicare is not 100% coverage (it has a co-pay) and requiring you to BUY a supplemental insurance


Can YOU afford a 25,000 to 50,000 dollar EXTRA TAX BILL EVERY YEAR on top of the ALREADY high taxes we pay?????????????????????????


single payer will never work,,,even france's single payer system is going broke
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:12 PM
 
58,761 posts, read 27,092,933 times
Reputation: 14187
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoranrat View Post
You are completely misunderstanding the point.

The point is not that you are mandated to take it. The point is that your health care options available to you are (for the vast majority of people) tied to where you or your spouse work. And very few people are going to be able to get health coverage on their own better than the one that they get through work.

If you work for a company with great benefits, then that is great. But what if you don't? Or what if you did but got laid off? Or what if you want to move jobs but can't because if you did you'd lose good health coverage because your potential newer job doesn't have as good coverage?

Where you work and what kind of health coverage options you have available to you should be de-coupled.
What if, what if, what if?
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Old 02-03-2011, 05:30 PM
 
6,205 posts, read 7,442,172 times
Reputation: 3563
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinm View Post
Most companies have "flex dollars" that they give you to PURCHASE their health plan. If you decline, you get the money in your check or you can apply it to other programs like increased life or disability insurance.
Flex spending and health insurance provided by your employer are separate topics.
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Old 02-03-2011, 05:36 PM
 
6,484 posts, read 6,606,150 times
Reputation: 1275
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoranrat View Post
The current system of coupling health care benefits to employment, IMHO, is stupid. Few if any developed countries do this. In most other countries where you work has nothing to do with what health care coverage you have available to you. But here in the U.S., it has almost everything to do with your health care coverage you can get and plays a huge part in what jobs you will take (or which jobs you can afford to quit due to loss of health coverage). That is just absurd!

There should be either a single-payer, Medicare for all type system. And/or there should be a private-provider based system but in which the entire U.S. population is treated as one big gigantic health insurance pool and market.

Anyway, the point is that where you work should have nothing to do with what health coverage you can get.

Imagine, say, if where you worked limited your options in terms of where you could shop for groceries or clothes or where your children could go to school, etc etc. For instance, if you worked at XYZ company, you could shop at certain stores at reasonable prices but would have to pay exhorbitant prices if you shopped elsewhere. And if you were fired or quit, you'd have to pay exhorbitant prices to shop anywhere. Well you would say that that is absurd. But is it not really any less absurd than saying that where you work determines what insurance you can get for reasonable coverage at a reasonable price.

Here are some articles that talk about this among many others:

Why We Should De-Couple Health Care From Employment

It's not too late for health care vouchers

You can buy your own health insurance if you want. Why do you begrudge an employer sweetening the compensation deal for its employees by paying for part of their health care?
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Old 02-03-2011, 05:41 PM
 
6,734 posts, read 9,326,676 times
Reputation: 1857
Medicare for all!
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Old 02-03-2011, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Ohio
24,623 posts, read 19,108,889 times
Reputation: 21738
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoranrat View Post
The current system of coupling health care benefits to employment, IMHO, is stupid.
Yes, it is, and it's the first step in the people gaining affordable health care without government intervention.

The second step is enacting legislation to ban the Hospital Cartels....dammit...I meant to say banning the Networks.
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Old 02-03-2011, 06:25 PM
 
Location: Ohio
24,623 posts, read 19,108,889 times
Reputation: 21738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvinist View Post
You can buy your own health insurance if you want.
Okay, and will the employer provide the employee with cash or an alternative benefit?

That was always my problem. I get health care through the VA, so if I reject the health plan the employer offers, then what do I get?

If they employer is kicking in $235/month for health insurance benefits, then shouldn't the employer give me an extra $235 a month in cash, or an alternative, like tuition reimbursement or extra days off?

It would seem that some people are discriminated against in pay and compensation.

If the employer is going to pay $235/month in health care benefits, then why not just give the employee the $235 and let them choose their carrier. That would eliminate the majority of problems that arise from "pre-existing conditions" because if the employee changed jobs, they could retain the same health plan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvinist View Post
Why do you begrudge an employer sweetening the compensation deal for its employees by paying for part of their health care?
If it's such a sweet deal, then why don't employers offer group auto or home owner's insurance?
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Old 02-03-2011, 06:39 PM
 
2,208 posts, read 1,832,762 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by maskedman View Post
Anybody can go get insurance on there own.......
Now. Now anyone can. We denied people left and right. When I worked in insurance we denied a person because of tennis elbow. The premiums are high if you want an individual plan. High deductible and high premiums.

Here is Korea, it's socialized. My employer pays 50% I pay the other 50% of the national health care. So it comes out to a little less than $90 a month. It's really cheap here for great service.
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