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Assimilation always fails. Humans identify themselves with likewise thinkers or groups.
Look at the history of Native Americans. When total annihilation failed the European descendants of the immigrants who came here tried to force assimilation on all of the Indigenous people here in North American. Every action failed. Over the course of several hundred years many different approaches were tried. Even during my dad's youth many children were taken from their homes, their parents, and their tribes to be shipped off to Christian boarding schools. During his generation it was not forced as it was in earlier generations. At least, not for him.
It was in those Christian boarding schools where the were badly beaten for speaking their native language; had their hair cut so they looked like little white kids. That was my dad's generation! The generation before my dad, Native children were taken from their parents and shipped off to these Christian boarding schools where traditional attire was forcibly replaced with White peoples' style of dress; they were beaten for speaking their languages; they weren't allowed to return home often for years. So as far as I'm concerned Christians can kiss off.
In the late 1950's many Native Americans were enticed off of their reservations and away from their tribes. They were encouraged by a federal policy to move to cities. Milwaukee, Seattle, San Francisco, Denver and other selected cities with the promise of jobs. Those who left for the cities found minimun wage jobs, horrendous housing conditions and they were often thousands of miles away from tribal and family support systems. The point of this program was assimilation. It was another effort of the U.S of America's failed Indian policies. The BIA or whoever was running that program tried to get my dad to move and he refused. Lots of NDNs were disconnected from their culture by this policy. Read Wilma Mankiller's biography and you'll see her family was one of the ones that moved to San Francisco.
While most of us NDN's do just fine in mainstream America, those who have been lucky enough to be raised around NDN's and NDN culture refuse to ever let go of that culture.
Assimilation by trying kill off another's culture never works. Assimilation works when one culture respects another culture and people go with the flow and let things be. Generally speaking, Whites and Christians seem to be the worst at trying to force everyone else to be like them. I don't know why. Just let it go. People would be okay if they would simply respect one anothers' culture.
Very good points. The day we are forced to look at people and not see their culture or heritage for fear of seeing them as something different from ourselves is the day America truly loses what's great about it. One of the best aspects of living in a city is experiencing such mixtures of people living together in overwhelmingly peaceful situations.
haha - we just simultaneously gave props to each other
Melting pot means "out of many one". Americans are a new people, with our own language, culture, flag, history, outlook, government and the whole bit.
Some immigrants come because they truly want to become American, they want to learn our language, culture and so on.
We're no longer a melting pot. Now hordes of people arrive here and want to live just like they did back home, they despise the American people, insist they should never learn our language or history. They want to live here but just for the money and government handouts.
Food doesn't make a culture. You can be as American as can be and eat a taco one night, a pizza the next, an eggroll the day after that. In fact eating Chinese food and rice doesn't make you culturally aware of China, doesn't teach you it's history or cultural values.
Assimilation is very related to integration - both very good goals because united we stand, divided we fall. The word "diversity" is from the same root as "divided" and that's exactly what it's about.
Melting pot means "out of many one". Americans are a new people, with our own language, culture, flag, history, outlook, government and the whole bit.
Some immigrants come because they truly want to become American, they want to learn our language, culture and so on.
We're no longer a melting pot. Now hordes of people arrive here and want to live just like they did back home, they despise the American people, insist they should never learn our language or history. They want to live here but just for the money and government handouts.
Food doesn't make a culture. You can be as American as can be and eat a taco one night, a pizza the next, an eggroll the day after that. In fact eating Chinese food and rice doesn't make you culturally aware of China, doesn't teach you it's history or cultural values.
Assimilation is very related to integration - both very good goals because united we stand, divided we fall. The word "diversity" is from the same root as "divided" and that's exactly what it's about.
Very good post, the best, and your words so chosen. Some people would still consider us a melting pot, because of the many different Peope living amongst each other, from different cultures and Countries.
Your right about one thing, today, illegals do show that they in no way want to become American and do it legally, for gosh sakes look at Obama's Aunt, how many stories like this truly do exist. The government handouts, and bleeding the system dry does take place.
A melting pot is a whole bunch rolled up into one. We still do in a sense have diversity, we don't see it as much, because of all the bad that is associated with those who come here illegally.
The many different Races, Nationalitites, Religions, Language, Food, Clothing, etc that these different people bring to our Country, and there different cultures, do make us still a leaner melting pot.
So, if I can ask Malamute and California-jewel, what about those who have descended from the Indigenous? I'm 1/2 Mvskoke fromt my dad, and my mom's people were French/Irish. I don't know them. I've grown up NDN.
From your posts, it sounds as if you're a proponent of people giving up their culture. But to become what? What exactly is American culture? Cowboys? Rodeos? Football? Cheerleaders, Abercrombie and Finch? I can saddle and ride a horse. Been there, done that many times. New York? Riding the subway? I can do that! (I dont' have that NY accent, though.. ) If I'm not suppose to be NDN, then what the heck am I?
All I know is that in the end, I'm just me, and that's mix of many things. I've spent time living on a reservation and went to school on the rez for a short while. Most of my upbringing has been around a mixture of cultures, but there was never a doubt that I am Native American. That's who I am. My one child is 1/2 Mexican, and I have more fun with her deceased father's family gatherings than just about anything I do. If you've never been to a huge Mexican wedding then you're missing out on a lot of family fun.
I'm around my Native side and Native people most, but have so many non-Native friends.
To me it appears that some Americans have this view that everyone is suppose to 'be Just American' and act 'Just American'. Isn't 'Just-American' just another way of hyphanating and identifying with a group? It's just that we "Americans' have originated from this continent and come from all over the globe. We carry a piece of that culture with us. That is American.
Location: Georgia, on the Florida line, right above Tallahassee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thewitchisback
I would posit that America is not the melting pot it touts itself as based strongly on my trips there and more or less confirmed by this board also.
A true melting pot would mean that no one culture is considered exotic or "different" from any other.
I would posit that Trinidad is a melting pot. Or at least more than the US.
For example, all Trinidadians irrespective of race would eat similar foods...I am not of East Indian descent but like everyone else here use the Hindi word for many vegetables, all meats are halal and no non Muslim has a problem with it, white Trinidadians will dance the same as I would(heavily West African based), we speak the same slang and vernacular ( no concept of "talking black"),we all use French derived words in local speech (doesn't matter if you are not of French descent). Where differences exist, most of us are aware of and respect those differences. For example it is pretty normal to participate in other religions' festivals. In a nutshell, everyone's culture is quite mainstream..even the "minorities" which makes it pointless to even use such a term to describe them.
Just using Trinidad as an example...I'm sure we pale in comparison to South America.
I don't think it is America's fault that there are all these divisions. In such a vast nation it would be hard for people to be forced close to each other to interact and assume parts of other people's culture.
I'm not sure it's a good thing, either, to lose customs and sense of identity. Maybe hyphenating is good. I have eastern European relatives who came over generations ago and still think of themselves primarily from that cultural heritage - meaning they essentially hyphenate themselves.[/quote]
Well stated! I'd rep you again, but I have to 'spread it around'.
I think it goes against human nature. Humans have a natural tendency to group together with the like minded. In the past, we saw this with tribalism. Today we see it with politics, religion, regions where one lives (South, NE, PNW, ect.) race, culture and such. Often out of these groupings there are sub-groups.
Think of the identity crisis teen-agers go through when they are trying to hard to find themselves and where they fit in. Goth kids, gang-banger kids, christian kids, ect.
People group themselves, whether it's an identification with lifestyle: cowboy, rancer, farmer, hippie, punk rocker, born again Christian, Catholic, biker, or any combination of those and many other things. It's natural.
I agree that people group themselves by various criteria, but I don't agree that preserving racial divides is a positive step. I wish the government would stop all questions about race and stop keeping statistics on race.
Let people group themselves however they choose to do so. It might be race, or it might be any of a dozen other criteria. There is no right or wrong grouping when it's done voluntarily. On the other hand, the government categorizes everyone by race and that forces divisions along racial lines. That is a bad thing.
We are very much a melting pot, one of many cultures and beleifs and we have learned to live together, not always in harmony, but how many other nations do offer to everyone what America does. That being said, we were more of true melting pot when people came to this country to be Americans and not trying to hold onto their old culture and ways but still enjoy living here.
I would posit that America is not the melting pot it touts itself as based strongly on my trips there and more or less confirmed by this board also.
A true melting pot would mean that no one culture is considered exotic or "different" from any other.
I would posit that Trinidad is a melting pot. Or at least more than the US.
For example, all Trinidadians irrespective of race would eat similar foods...I am not of East Indian descent but like everyone else here use the Hindi word for many vegetables, all meats are halal and no non Muslim has a problem with it, white Trinidadians will dance the same as I would(heavily West African based), we speak the same slang and vernacular ( no concept of "talking black"),we all use French derived words in local speech (doesn't matter if you are not of French descent). Where differences exist, most of us are aware of and respect those differences. For example it is pretty normal to participate in other religions' festivals. In a nutshell, everyone's culture is quite mainstream..even the "minorities" which makes it pointless to even use such a term to describe them.
Just using Trinidad as an example...I'm sure we pale in comparison to South America.
I don't think it is America's fault that there are all these divisions. In such a vast nation it would be hard for people to be forced close to each other to interact and assume parts of other people's culture.
So, if I can ask Malamute and California-jewel, what about those who have descended from the Indigenous? I'm 1/2 Mvskoke fromt my dad, and my mom's people were French/Irish. I don't know them. I've grown up NDN.
From your posts, it sounds as if you're a proponent of people giving up their culture. But to become what? What exactly is American culture? Cowboys? Rodeos? Football? Cheerleaders, Abercrombie and Finch? I can saddle and ride a horse. Been there, done that many times. New York? Riding the subway? I can do that! (I dont' have that NY accent, though.. ) If I'm not suppose to be NDN, then what the heck am I?
All I know is that in the end, I'm just me, and that's mix of many things. I've spent time living on a reservation and went to school on the rez for a short while. Most of my upbringing has been around a mixture of cultures, but there was never a doubt that I am Native American. That's who I am. My one child is 1/2 Mexican, and I have more fun with her deceased father's family gatherings than just about anything I do. If you've never been to a huge Mexican wedding then you're missing out on a lot of family fun.
I'm around my Native side and Native people most, but have so many non-Native friends.
To me it appears that some Americans have this view that everyone is suppose to 'be Just American' and act 'Just American'. Isn't 'Just-American' just another way of hyphanating and identifying with a group? It's just that we "Americans' have originated from this continent and come from all over the globe. We carry a piece of that culture with us. That is American.
If you're really into Mexican culture, why not relocate to Mexico?
There are also immigrants from Mexico who do learn English, learn American history and become American, they jump into the melting pot but you're right, there are many who come here but consider themselves to still be Mexican, wave "their own" flag and refuse to adapt in any way.
I take it you are a Separationist.
But really what's the point in leaving your own country and then trying to remake it here? If people don't want to become American, then what's so bad in staying home, loving your own country and culture while living in it?
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