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Old 02-13-2011, 03:53 PM
 
4,410 posts, read 6,130,012 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucsLose View Post
Take note that some of those who defend the Muslim Brotherhood coincidentally enough also hate Israel. I think that speaks volumes.

Like someone else mentioned. I do believe the Left has more in common with the evil in the Middle East that anyone is willing to admit. They both hate Israel and the jews. They both think America should be put in its place.

God help us.
My understanding is that Israel was carved out of Arab nations some 60+ years ago. Someone decided that the religious enemy of the Muslim world should be centered in their part of the world. So, why support Israel since it's such a stupefyingly bad idea that it exists at all? Nothing evil in that conclusion, I mean, it's as simple as Sesame Street's "Can you guess which one just doesn't belong here?".

American arrogance and its involvement in every nation needs to be curtailed. We certainly can't afford it and we shouldn't be doing it. If that corresponds to your belief that "America should be put in its place" then someone has spiked your punch.

And how American of you to suggest that the people you disagree with--the left--are the equivalent of evil. What does that accomplish except to divide the country you probably claim to love? I think the neocons in the Bush administration were downright evil in their beliefs. I think torture is evil no matter who does it. I think it's evil when public officials lie and people are killed as a result.

God help you to understand how damaging your views are. Now, take a deep breath and try to offer solutions without demonizing everybody else who might hold an alternative viewpoint.
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Old 02-14-2011, 04:44 AM
Status: "Wishing all the best of health and peace!" (set 10 days ago)
 
43,459 posts, read 44,179,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhouse2001 View Post
My understanding is that Israel was carved out of Arab nations some 60+ years ago. Someone decided that the religious enemy of the Muslim world should be centered in their part of the world. So, why support Israel since it's such a stupefyingly bad idea that it exists at all? Nothing evil in that conclusion, I mean, it's as simple as Sesame Street's "Can you guess which one just doesn't belong here?".
Your understanding of the situation is faulty. Israel was not carved out of Arab nations some 60+ years ago. The Jewish people have had a presence in the area since Biblical times. There has never been an Arab Palestinian state in that area.
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Old 02-14-2011, 04:46 AM
Status: "Wishing all the best of health and peace!" (set 10 days ago)
 
43,459 posts, read 44,179,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by padcrasher View Post

Furthermore, Israel itself, is responsible for all the antagonism directed from at it from Arabs because of it's brutal, repressive treatment of Palestinians.
If your claim were true, Israel would not have provided medical treatment to many Gazans, even during times of war:
Egypt Closes Entrance to Gazans Needing Medical Care - Defense/Middle East - Israel News - Israel National News
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Old 02-14-2011, 07:56 AM
 
13,186 posts, read 14,954,538 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chava61 View Post
If your claim were true, Israel would not have provided medical treatment to many Gazans, even during times of war:
Egypt Closes Entrance to Gazans Needing Medical Care - Defense/Middle East - Israel News - Israel National News
Oh because a brutal regime can't commit war crimes on one hand and PR stunts on the other?

I'm sure the IDF is very eager to drag camera crews along as they treat the injured and maimed they just a few hours before intentionally targeted.

Really, who do you think you are fooling?
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Old 02-14-2011, 08:56 AM
Status: "Wishing all the best of health and peace!" (set 10 days ago)
 
43,459 posts, read 44,179,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by padcrasher View Post
Oh because a brutal regime can't commit war crimes on one hand and PR stunts on the other?

I'm sure the IDF is very eager to drag camera crews along as they treat the injured and maimed they just a few hours before intentionally targeted.

Really, who do you think you are fooling?
The article shows that Israel is taking care of the medical needs of people whose illnesses are not caused by war or attacks by Israeli soldiers. So your remark has really nothing to do with my posting. Who do you think you are fooling?
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Old 02-14-2011, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Michigan
12,711 posts, read 13,456,579 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chava61 View Post
Your understanding of the situation is faulty. Israel was not carved out of Arab nations some 60+ years ago. The Jewish people have had a presence in the area since Biblical times. There has never been an Arab Palestinian state in that area.
So Jews just need a 'presence' to be legit, Palestinian Arabs need 'statehood' to qualify. An interesting disparity of standards.

In reality, Palestinian Arabs and Palestinian-born Jews are extremely similar, DNA-wise. Both of their ancestors have been in the vicinity a damn good while, if we're going on an ancient history basis.

Of course on that basis I could kick someone in Amiens, France or Szczebrezszyn, Poland out of their house at gunpoint because my ancestors once lived there. A world based on claims like that would be a madhouse.
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Old 02-14-2011, 05:28 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 36,978,939 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chava61 View Post
Your understanding of the situation is faulty. Israel was not carved out of Arab nations some 60+ years ago. The Jewish people have had a presence in the area since Biblical times. There has never been an Arab Palestinian state in that area.
Nothing personal but its a bit much to state that someone's understanding is faulty when make a error as egregious as your statement above.

The fact that Jews have lived in the area of Palestine since the 1400's BCE does nothing to alter the fact that a Jewish state hasn't existed since the 6th century. To deny that the State of Israel is a modern construction by the United Nations is just ridiculous. In 1998 Israel celebrated its 50th Anniversary not its 5,000th.

The argument that there never was a Arab Palestinian state is a total red herring. For thousands of years Arabs as well has Jews and others have lived in what was once Trans-Jordan, there would be no need for a Palestinian state if the land created by the UN were governed in a pluralistic and democratic manner. Instead we have a bifurcated entity created by UN resolution half of which has never been allowed to exist.
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Old 02-14-2011, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Michigan
12,711 posts, read 13,456,579 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
The argument that there never was a Arab Palestinian state is a total red herring. For thousands of years Arabs as well has Jews and others have lived in what was once Trans-Jordan, there would be no need for a Palestinian state if the land created by the UN were governed in a pluralistic and democratic manner. Instead we have a bifurcated entity created by UN resolution half of which has never been allowed to exist.
ovcatto, your general point is correct, but I have to correct the misapprehension that the UN General Assembly's vote in favor of partitioning Palestine "created" anything at all. It did not create anything other than more confusion, and was not legally binding on any of the involved parties.

Of the involved parties, the Jews said "OK, we don't like it but we'll live with it." The Arabs said, with just cause, "Hell no." The British said "We don't object, in fact we like it, but since it is rejected by one of the involved parties, we won't be expected to enforce it." (Not that there was any real enforcement power in it to start with.)
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Old 02-15-2011, 04:24 AM
Status: "Wishing all the best of health and peace!" (set 10 days ago)
 
43,459 posts, read 44,179,710 times
Reputation: 20474
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post

The fact that Jews have lived in the area of Palestine since the 1400's BCE does nothing to alter the fact that a Jewish state hasn't existed since the 6th century. To deny that the State of Israel is a modern construction by the United Nations is just ridiculous. In 1998 Israel celebrated its 50th Anniversary not its 5,000th.

The argument that there never was a Arab Palestinian state is a total red herring. For thousands of years Arabs as well has Jews and others have lived in what was once Trans-Jordan, there would be no need for a Palestinian state if the land created by the UN were governed in a pluralistic and democratic manner. Instead we have a bifurcated entity created by UN resolution half of which has never been allowed to exist.
In reality the Palestinians have a state - Jordan which was part of Trans-Jordan and has a Palestinian majority. So it is possible to claim that the Palestinians already have a "Palestinian" state as this area was part of the former British Mandate. If anything the state of Jordan should never have been allowed to exist unless it was formerly declared as a homeland for the Palestinian arabs.
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Old 02-15-2011, 04:28 AM
Status: "Wishing all the best of health and peace!" (set 10 days ago)
 
43,459 posts, read 44,179,710 times
Reputation: 20474
Quote:
Originally Posted by djacques View Post
So Jews just need a 'presence' to be legit, Palestinian Arabs need 'statehood' to qualify. An interesting disparity of standards.

In reality, Palestinian Arabs and Palestinian-born Jews are extremely similar, DNA-wise. Both of their ancestors have been in the vicinity a damn good while, if we're going on an ancient history basis.
The Palestinian Arabs could have had a state in 1947/8 like the Jews. Nobody tried to deny them the rights or kick them out the area. They choose at that time not to establish a state of their own.
Today the Israeli Arabs (with Israeli citizenship) would prefer to keep that Israeli citizenship rather have Palestinian citizenship in the future.
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