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Old 02-08-2011, 08:55 PM
 
565 posts, read 484,616 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
Do you have an explanation as to why this may have happened such that a creative force independent of time, space, matter and energy would be ruled out?
What makes you believe that you or anyone else with a mere human brain may be able to understand the ultimate nature of things.

 
Old 02-08-2011, 08:55 PM
 
Location: New Mexico
8,396 posts, read 9,417,745 times
Reputation: 4070
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
15% of high school science teachers explicitly endorse creationism while 60% of teachers are to scared to stake a claim on the hard science.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/08/sc...R_HP_LO_MST_FB

Some folks complain that we're falling behind other industrialized nations in science education. Then they say we need to teach creationist nonsense as if it's science.

If these people have their way, we're doomed.
 
Old 02-08-2011, 09:21 PM
 
Location: AL
2,476 posts, read 2,597,438 times
Reputation: 1015
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
Wasting at least 50% of the money spent.

I find it funny about many people....seems the ones who spout tolerance are always always are the most intolerant of others..funny how that works.
 
Old 02-08-2011, 09:57 PM
 
Location: Georgia, on the Florida line, right above Tallahassee
10,471 posts, read 15,792,228 times
Reputation: 6435
Quote:
Originally Posted by ray1945 View Post
Even during my childhood days of Christianity, I always saw the Biblical story of creation as an allegory for evolution. The people of that time were childlike thinkers and were incapable of understanding complicated reasoning, so this great story was created for them by those who knew - or suspected - the truth.

It is incomprehensible to me that now, in 2011, with all of the great scientific discoveries that have occurred over the millennia, that there are people who want a fable to be taught as fact. Biblical creationism as an explanation of the workings of our universe is on par with the myths of the Egyptians, Greeks, or Romans, and, if it is to be taught, should be presented as such.
Baghdad Battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Newgrange - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is a dramatic testimony to the ancient Celts’ scientific and architectural sophistication. Its designers employed great mathematical skills to create such an uncannily accurate astronomical instrument of gargantuan scale

It has been estimated that there are some 224,000 tons (203,200 tonnes) of material in the structure. None of the stone is local: the curbstones and those used inside the tumulus were quarried about 20 miles (36 kilometers) from the site; the quartz comes from Wicklow, about 60 miles (100 kilometers) to the south; and the 1,600 granite boulders come from the Mourne Mountains, just as far to the north. All were quarried, transported, dressed, and fitted into place using only stone tools, and without the use of the wheel.

Seven Wonders of the Ancient World - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Old 02-08-2011, 10:04 PM
 
14,903 posts, read 8,516,490 times
Reputation: 7328
Quote:
Originally Posted by wellyouknow View Post
So you went into an underhanded personal attack. Was expected. And when did I say that monkeys 'don't have thumbs too'?

I ask you again: What is the Creationism theory? Please define it for me.
First off .... you said "We are nothing but an ape mutation only few codons away from the ape. Larger brain and thumbs gave us advantage in the environment. .... insinuating that a larger brain and thumbs were what differentiated humans from the apes. And though all apes don't have thumbs, most do ... and I can't tell you how many times I've had that "opposable digit" argument tossed at me from the Darwinist crowd. Of course, most will strenuously deny their ignorance of monkey thumbs when I point that out .... after they've taken an internet journey to Wikipedia and found the truth. And I'm not being crass .... I'm simply highlighting the difference between "beliefs" and "facts" ... and how often beliefs have so little in common with facts.

As for the definition of "creationism", I have no idea. But I can define for you what I believe to be an accurate description of "Intelligent Design" theory, if you want to know that?

Intelligent design theory postulates that the complexity of life precludes it from having sprung into existence out of a pool of protein soup, randomly, and combining to form simple organisms which then progress to higher forms of life through subtractive means!!! And, make no mistake, both genetic mutation AND natural selection are subtractive ... not additive. It's a backassward theory, and spits in the face of common sense. It's pure delusional thinking.

The evolution theory demands that we believe that one could start with a Go Cart ... and through slight and subtle alterations over time create a Lamborghini out of it. It's absurd!!

If Charles Darwin were alive today, he would be forced to admit his theory didn't hold water. Why do I say that? Because HE said it ... and I quote "If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down". And with the advent of the advanced electron microscope, there are clear examples that most definitely fit that description.

There are molecular machines in the human body that possess the nature of "irreducible complexity", and the construction of these machines is such that one missing part, or sequence of construction would render them useless and non functional.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og-ll...eature=related

Molecular biologists understand the complex nature of life, and the folly of it coming into existence by random chance.

Geneticists understand that DNA is the most advanced information storage mechanism known to exist, and uses an infinitely complex coded language with instructions to create every cell in the body. And it is self replicating, and self repairing. This is a signature of the designer/s. No chance of this being random chance.

Can you even stop and think rationally for a moment, and realize just how maniacally STUPID it is to believe all of these complex mechanisms of life came into existence by chance, rather than by design? I have no idea who it is that designed this ... and I doubt very seriously it's some guy with a flowing white beard hanging in the clouds over head .... but whoever the designer or designers were, he/she/they were advanced beyond our comprehension.
 
Old 02-08-2011, 10:09 PM
 
6,993 posts, read 6,318,913 times
Reputation: 2823
Quote:
Originally Posted by 70Ford View Post
Baghdad Battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Newgrange - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is a dramatic testimony to the ancient Celts’ scientific and architectural sophistication. Its designers employed great mathematical skills to create such an uncannily accurate astronomical instrument of gargantuan scale

It has been estimated that there are some 224,000 tons (203,200 tonnes) of material in the structure. None of the stone is local: the curbstones and those used inside the tumulus were quarried about 20 miles (36 kilometers) from the site; the quartz comes from Wicklow, about 60 miles (100 kilometers) to the south; and the 1,600 granite boulders come from the Mourne Mountains, just as far to the north. All were quarried, transported, dressed, and fitted into place using only stone tools, and without the use of the wheel.

Seven Wonders of the Ancient World - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So, what's your point? Are you trying to say that the masses of that time were sophisticated thinkers? They weren't.
 
Old 02-08-2011, 10:35 PM
 
14,903 posts, read 8,516,490 times
Reputation: 7328
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaida View Post
Teaching creationism as fact doesn't belong in tax-supported institutions like public schools. There is no evidence for creationism, so it definitely shouldn't be taught alongside evolution because that would be dishonest to the students. If we want to thrive as a nation and compete globally, we cannot allow the supernatural beliefs of some to override solid scientific principles. Our children deserve the opportunity to learn how to think rationally and critically.
And teaching them one side of a story is teaching the what to think, not how to think!!!!

Teach them both theories ... Intelligent design and Evolution, and let them make up their own minds .... if you are at all interested in them learning how to think.
 
Old 02-08-2011, 11:04 PM
 
1,777 posts, read 1,398,541 times
Reputation: 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
And teaching them one side of a story is teaching the what to think, not how to think!!!!

Teach them both theories ... Intelligent design and Evolution, and let them make up their own minds .... if you are at all interested in them learning how to think.
Intelligent design has been found by federal courts to be nothing more than pure creationism in disguise. Creationism in public schools as science violates the First Amendment.
 
Old 02-08-2011, 11:10 PM
 
48,505 posts, read 96,589,733 times
Reputation: 18303
Bascially we may not have to worry about the pubic school sooner. If it keeps going people will have a choice lke they do in where they go to college with a vaucher;the way its going in public schools. Then everyone can be happy and have freedon of choice.May reverse the home schoolling trend even.
 
Old 02-09-2011, 12:01 AM
 
14,903 posts, read 8,516,490 times
Reputation: 7328
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
Wrong.

1. There are different kinds of mutations. The most common are point mutations on the DNA molecule. Less common are chromosomal mutations involving longer stretches of genetic code.

2. The DNA code is redundant. Somewhere around 40% of all point mutations on the genome do not do anything at all and are completely silent.

3. The vast majority of non-silent point mutations change a single amino acid on a single protein. These differences are the definition of "genetic variation," and are the sort of differences that account for the simple fact that each human is an individual and not a clone.
You know, to the under 50% crowd, that may sound impressive ... and i'm willing to bet you don't have a clue about what you just said ... but as is your habit to do, you make my points for me sometimes. This is one of those times (just like yesterday )

Point mutations have nothing whatsoever to do with "evolution" because they are either negative or silent (just as I stated in more detail earlier). And point mutations can be DRAMATICALLY devastating ... just ask any African American with Sickle Cell Anemia .... which is caused by a single point mutation. And even in non-coded portions of the DNA, single point mutations can cause "frameshift", which is an error in reading the DNA code due to an absent base pair. And of the significant variety of point mutations that can occur, NOT ONE can be considered a positive enhancement to the organism .. hence, no evolutionary value ... only adamaged DNA that is either silent, negative, or disastrous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
4. Regardless of whether they are positive or negative in effect, all of these mutations are additive to the genome. They add new information that did not previously exist. You personally possess about 100 such mutations that existed in neither of your parents.
You don't understand what you are cutting and pasting here!!! What a joke! Regardless if they are positive or negative? ... shut up!!! Name a positive point mutation? There is no such thing ... and these are subtractive not additive. If you insert erroneous information into the gnome ... that's IS NOT ADDING ... it's still erroneous information ... whether it happens in a none critical area with silent results ... or severely negative .. it's still subtractive. The only way it could be additive is IF an erroneous mutation added a purely coincidental benefit ... and there are no documented cases of such a thing occurring in nature ... only genetically engineered mutations which really aren't mutations at all .. that would define manipulations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
5. In a changing environment in which organisms are not perfectly adapted, the alteration of that single amino acid will move the "operation" of that protein either closer to or farther from optimum. Since it is random, 50% of all non-silent point mutations will be potentially beneficial to the organism, if they are able to be fixed in the gene pool.
Blathering nonsense. Sounds impressive to the 70 IQ ... but nonsense to anyone who can tie their own shoes. You want to sell this bill of goods that this infinitely complex system stands a 50/50 chance of seeing positive results from a random alteration in how it functions? YOU CANNOT BE REAL ... well, maybe you do believe this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
Considering chromosomal rather than point mutations:

1. One of the most common chromosomal mutations is called "gene duplication." In these cases, rather than one copy of a gene, two are inserted into the new cell after replication. This is additive to the genome, as the amount of genetic information associated with that gene is now doubled.

2. In these instances, one copy of the gene can be conserved for its original purpose, while the new duplicate is free to evolve in any direction that natural selection wants to drive it.

3. Gene duplications are responsible for such evolutionary innovations as tricolor vision and the mammalian clotting cascade.
Bull .... it's a copy ... it adds nothing, except perhaps some redundancy, but also an increase chance of severe disease, as
gene duplication/amplification is one of the primary causes of several types of cancer .... again, such mutations are almost always detrimental.

The gene duplication issue was latched onto by evolutionists in a desperate effort to provide a path for slow evolutionary processes ... i.e. the duplicate gene is free to allow the original gene to do its work, leaving the duplicate to sit on the beach, getting a sun tan, and reading a bunch of books (evolving leisurely). It's a convenient THEORY, with a lot of cancer patients to argue with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
QED: As usual, you have no idea what you are talking about. But then again, you are a jeweler. So you have an excuse for your ignorance.
So says Mr. Cut and Paste .... you haven't the foggiest clue! You're a wikipedia addict with bad reading skills, and zero understanding of the topics you pose as expert.
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