why defend Islam (religion of peace) that want to destroy US???? (suspect, deaths)

[djacques]

Originally Posted by jeffington

Thank you so very much for making my argument for me. As a matter of historical record, they have already used, on at least 4 occasions on U.S. soil, Ultra-large, incidiary cruise missles. The largest, which weighed approx. 400,000 lbs, slammed into the North Tower of the WTC, NYC, a building complex that no longer exists thanks to Slam.

Which was a suicide mission, correct?

When Slam gets nuclear weapons, either from Paki, Israel or through their own manufacture, there are going to be clouds. Big, hot, roiling mushroom-shaped clouds. Part of one of those clouds, now reduced to hot plasma, may be the atoms that once comprised YOU.

They are going to get them from Israel? I've heard some bat-**** crazy stuff before but this takes the cake.

I, assuming I too am not reduced to hot plasma, will be typing "I t-o-l-d y-o-u s-o.

And I'll be typing back from heaven or hell "i-t w-a-s y-o-u-r f-a-u-l-t a-s-s-h-o-l-e."

[jeffington]

Originally Posted by Deezus

... make the same argument that the Israelis hate the Muslims because they aren't Jewish.

You COULD say this, but you would be completely wrong AND make an abject fool of yourself.

The only animus that exists in the collective hearts of the Isaraelis against Slammers is because Slammers are trying to exterminate them. As a matter of fact, the Jews of Israel have bent over backward to accomodate the Slammers - far more than I ever would, given the circumstances. For example, if you hurl fist sized rocks at me, you would count yourself lucky to escape with only your legs being reduced to shards with a short full-auto burst. The Israel security forces, by-and-large "take it" with only an occasional arm-breaking as a deterrent.

Some day Slammer will exterminate some beautiful person that you loved, and when it does, you'll change your story.

I will give you some wisdom that will serve you well. It has to do with tolerance, which has become a buzz-word these days. While I am not against tolerance, in the correct circumstances, quite the opposite, but:


Tolerance of the intolerable is not a virtue
and
Intolerance of the Intolerable is NOT a vice

If you want more source info, surf the web. There are plenty of sites that will educate you - unless you find the bliss of Ignorance too strong of an aphrodesiac to sweep away with truth.

[jeffington]

Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed

I see yet another misinformed liberal Brit that's full of himself, making excuses for the radical Muslims. Those hijackers on 9/11 weren't bullied in school, they CHOSE to sacrifice themselves for those 72 virgins and their "god" by killing thousands of our own people, and still creating acts of violence to this day, in the name of Islam. Why is it when these people commit their violent acts, they scream Allah Akbar? Here's something hitting close to him to you. Why is it that in Luton not too far back, there was a demonstration by the UK Muslims and you can see signs calling for the destruction of the west, and to kill all the infidels (including you)?

I was gong to ignore unwashed's idiotic post as being so inane as to not merit a reply.

[Deezus]

Originally Posted by jeffington

Thank you so very much for making my argument for me. As a matter of historical record, they have already used, on at least 4 occasions on U.S. soil, Ultra-large, incidiary cruise missiles. The largest, which weighed approx. 400,000 lbs, slammed into the North Tower of the WTC, NYC, a building complex that no longer exists thanks to Slam.

When Slam gets nuclear weapons, either from Paki, Israel or through their own manufacture, there are going to be clouds. Big, hot, roiling mushroom-shaped clouds. Part of one of those clouds, now reduced to hot plasma, may be the atoms that once comprised YOU.

No doubt, many will be blaming GW Bush, or perhaps Christopher Columbus for the carnage.

I, assuming I too am not reduced to hot plasma, will be typing "I t-o-l-d y-o-u s-o.

First Islam is a religion--it's not a monolithic entity or multi-national organization. It's not even a very well organized religion, since every Iman in the world can give a different opinion of interpretation of much of the tenets of Islam. Islam itself can't acquire nuclear weapons, and there isn't some organized hierarchy even like the Catholic Church with a central ruling body. If you mean Muslims will acquire nuclear weapons, either a Muslim state or a sub-national group--well Pakistan already has nuclear weapons. A terrorist group acquiring nuclear weapons is indeed a frightening possibility, but you deal with that by stopping nuclear proliferation and increasing security levels. Sitting around and calling all 1.5 billion Muslims evil(most of whom have absolutely no connection to terrorism) will do nothing to prevent such an event.

And how the hell would Muslims acquire nuclear weapons from Israel? That's just a ridiculous concept...

[jeffington]

Originally Posted by djacques

Which was a suicide mission, correct?



They are going to get them from Israel? I've heard some bat-**** crazy stuff before but this takes the cake.



And I'll be typing back from heaven or hell "i-t w-a-s y-o-u-r f-a-u-l-t a-s-s-h-o-l-e."

Are you familiar with the term "distinction without a difference"? That is about all your posts have - lots of distinctions that are, in the ultimate analysis, nullities.

It doesn't matter if an attack is a suicide one or not. It's purpose is to kill.
Get a clue. If you google it you might find some at a discount, perhaps e-Bay, but get one or more somewhere, somehow.

Israel has quite a few Nukes, Obviously (except seemingly to you), Isarel isn't gong to volutarily give them to Slam, BUT if Israel is overrun, they may fall into Slam hands. I'm sorry I didn't explain that all the way down to a 2nd grader level for you earlier.

[Deezus]

Originally Posted by jeffington

You COULD say this, but you would be completely wrong AND make an abject fool of yourself.

And I didn't say that...I was using that to make a comparison to the simplistic "Muslim hate Jews so they hate Israel" logic to explain the probelms that arise from disputed territory.

The only animus that exists in the collective hearts of the Isaraelis against Slammers is because Slammers are trying to exterminate them. As a matter of fact, the Jews of Israel have bent over backward to accomodate the Slammers - far more than I ever would, given the circumstances. For example, if you hurl fist sized rocks at me, you would count yourself lucky to escape with only your legs being reduced to shards with a short full-auto burst. The Israel security forces, by-and-large "take it" with only an occasional arm-breaking as a deterrent.

Gee, you don't think it has anything to do with the fact that the Palestinian Arabs didn't like being occupied by Israeli forces... Or having their lands divided up for Israeli settlements populated by Haisidic Jews and immigrants... Occupation can be a rough game--just ask the British troops who served in Northern Ireland during "the Troubles"...

Some day Slammer will exterminate some beautiful person that you loved, and when it does, you'll change your story.

Who's this Slammer fellow you keep talking about? Is this a pro-wrestler you're a fan of?

[djacques]

Originally Posted by jeffington

Are you familiar with the term "distinction without a difference"? That is about all your posts have - lots of distinctions that are, in the ultimate analysis, nullities.

I wasn't the person who coined the term "suicide bombing" so I am not responsible for the distinction.

It doesn't matter if an attack is a suicide one or not. It's purpose is to kill.

I'm glad you get this, but it's people of your type who use "suicide bombing" as a pejorative.

Israel has quite a few Nukes, Obviously (except seemingly to you), Isarel isn't gong to volutarily give them to Slam, BUT if Israel is overrun, they may fall into Slam hands.

If Israel is "overrun"--which is pretty unlikely precisely because they do have nukes--our problems are over because Israel is the cause of our problems in that region of the world.

[Dane_in_LA]

Originally Posted by jeffington

Sure, like that happens all the time.

Go look up the Sri Lanka civil war, ignoramus. Hundreds of suicide attacks. Of course, no oil and no English-speaking people, so Fox probably didn't cover it.

And remember, there is a difference between a political bombing where the bombers are one religion and the bombees are another, but the bombing is not religion-based (like the old IRA vs England attacks), and attacks that are religion-based.

I could've sworn somebody upthread said something about Islam being irrevocably intertwined with politics. And if you're saying that religion was just a bit player in the IRA/UK (not England) conflict, you have more reading to do.

[Ellis Bell]

Originally Posted by djacques

I wasn't the person who coined the term "suicide bombing" so I am not responsible for the distinction.



I'm glad you get this, but it's people of your type who use "suicide bombing" as a pejorative.



If Israel is "overrun"--which is pretty unlikely precisely because they do have nukes--our problems are over because Israel is the cause of our problems in that region of the world.

First take out little satan which is Israel, then take out big satan which is the U.S. then the hidden Imam will come. That is what's on the Iran President's mind.

Israel gets overrun, our problems will be just beginning.

I doubt very seriously, Israel is taking it personal they are referred to as being a little satan. Some how I think they are the bigger person(s) here. Which is good if they are, it means they won't go off on their opposition half cocked. They are trying to hold 'em off, for as long as possible.

[Eoin (pronounced Owen)]

Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed

I see yet another misinformed liberal Brit that's full of himself, making excuses for the radical Muslims.

"Making excuses" for radical Muslims? How is providing an explanation for the behaviour of another persons wayward behaviour tantamount to "excusing" it? Am I excusing a school shooter because I explain the circumstances leading to him behaving in the manner that he does? No I'm not, I'm explaining it.

Those hijackers on 9/11 weren't bullied in school, they CHOSE to sacrifice themselves for those 72 virgins and their "god" by killing thousands of our own people, and still creating acts of violence to this day, in the name of Islam.

Are you seriously suggesting that if the 9/11 hijackers had been bullied in school that it wouldn't have been their choice to fly planes into the twin towers? Secondly, you appear determined to make Islam out to be the cause of something which it not the cause of, if Islam had a role to play in the minds of the 9/11 bombers then it was a catalyst not the prime mover. I'm an atheist, I've got more of an axe to grind against Islam than any other religion on the face of this earth, but that doesn't lead me to crediting it with what it is not responsible for.

To address your concern that the 9/11 bombers performed their actions as a direct result of being a radical Muslim then we'll need a context and history lesson, because you're right but for the wrong reason. First off, you generalise about the background of the 9/11 bombers. The Wikipedia entry for Nawaf al-Hamzi states that he was abused by his father who had attacked him with a knife and he had a long scar all the way up his arm, al-Hamzi ran away from home in his teens to go and fight in Bosnia. The American equivalent might be running away to join the travelling circus. In Bosnia as a teenager he would have seen villages of Muslims lined up and shot into mass graves, the effects of systematic and widespread ethnic cleansing against Muslims (there were other groups who were victims but Muslims suffered predominantly), he would have witnessed the UN pull out which led directly to the awful events at Srebrenica." Several of the 9/11 bombers went as teenage boys to try and stop a genocide in Bosnia when the world pulled out and they would have witnessed hell on earth. I don't know what the psychological affects of being knife attacked by your own father, running away to a region being ethnically cleansed of Muslims and fighting a guerilla campaign before your 20th birthday does to ones mental state. However if you're prepared to accept that somebody who gets bullied for their whole life for having a silly voice is liable to shoot up his university campus, it seems relatively straightforward to think that child abuse, genocide and ethnic cleansing might lead to similar problems.

"Aha" you'll think, several of the 9/11 bombers came from respectable families and didn't have the above experiences, they were by all accounts intelligent and educated men, and you'd be right to think that. Muhammad Atta for example was the son of a lawyer and was a good student studying architecture. However as we can see with the IRA, the UVF, with ETA, with Baader-Meinhoff, with RZ, if people feel politically aggrieved then they are liable to try and kill others to achieve their political goals.

I don't know if I'm doing a dis-service to your intellect to explain what political greivances an Egyptian might have against the USA. Support for Hosni Mubarak would be one, billions of dollars of loans, supplying him with the teargas to surpress disidents. US support for dictatorships is another massive bugbear in the middle east, however no matter causes so much rage as US support for Israel. I presume I don't need to keep explaining that stealing somebodies country is an unpopular move among humans and causes animosity.

Why is it when these people commit their violent acts, they scream Allah Akbar?

Because we primitive humans insert God into our vocabulary in multiple situations. If I sneeze and somebody says, "Bless You" I doubt they are actually blessing me. If somebody tells me about a nasty situation I say "Jesus", if I miss being hit by a bus I say "Thank God". In Muslim cultures mentioning God is done in even more contexts. I was on a Gulf Airlines flight a year or so or go and the pilots announcement was that we'd be flying at 35,000 feet and arrive in 3 hours, to which he ended on insh'allah. (God willing) The pilot almost certainly isn't pleading with God, but it's a natural part of conversation to add God Willing when speaking about future events. If something nice happens they use 'alhamdulillah' meaning "by the grace of God", for example "How was your holiday", It was good alhamdulillah. (By the grace of God) Or when something is bad, Sorry I messed up Astagfirullah. (God forgive me.) When a loved one dies it is equally as part of their culture to say Allahu Akbar (God is great) as much as somebody they hate, which are the instances you are referring to.

Here's something hitting close to him to you. Why is it that in Luton not too far back, there was a demonstration by the UK Muslims and you can see signs calling for the destruction of the west, and to kill all the infidels (including you)?

Firstly, don't dare associate "the UK Muslims" with the group who protested in Luton. I have the decency not to associate "the UK Americans" with support for the butcherous war in Iraq which has left hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi's dead. Secondly, if you seriously want to make this point then quote me examples from the signs or words of the protestors you are referring to. Even the hardline nutters don't call for the killing of 'all the infidels'.

Eoin