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I consider a woman's responsibility for being raped similar to my responsibility for being mugged if I intentionally go into the wrong part of town. Use a little common sense and caution and avoid a lot of trouble. Do I have a right to go into danger? Yes. Should I if I can avoid it? Not in my opinion.
What if she wasn't on the wrong side of town? Do you really think rape only happens in "bad areas"?
Excusing a rapist for lack of restraint and thus committing an act of violence based on how a woman is dressed or not is absurdly irresponsible. But then the same could be said of many women who just happen to end up in short, tight or revealing clothing en route to work.
Enlighten me and stop berating me by trying to turn a man against women's rights. My claim all along has been that being dressed to avoid and evade a potential attacker (be it to steal money, rape, kill, whatever) requires one to be able to walk quickly, run, and blend in if necessary. I never even addressed the issue of whether it's primarily a sexual or power drive, except to say that it's primarily a power issue. Though, women in their sexual prime, college age, are 4 times more likely to be raped, according to RAINN (Rape, Abuse, and Incest National Network). So I'm skeptical of assertions that rape has nothing to do with sexual appeal. I'd have to see more research.
So, tell me where I ever strayed from that point or how that point of taking common sense approaches to safety could possibly be inaccurate.
That still doesn't prove that it's related to sexual appeal. Domestic violence is also more common among college-age students and that has nothing to do with sexual appeal. It could be just that most young adults have had less experience controlling their impulses than matured adults. It could be that college-age women are perceived as more vulnerable. It could be that a college-age woman is more likely to be drunk, and therefore an easier target. It could be a multitude of reasons.
Bluefly, just to give you an example--I'm a tomboy and always have been. Half the strangers I come into contact with think I'm a guy. I have boy-short hair and all my shirts hug my neck. I never wear sleeveless shirts. The most revealing I wear is a t-shirt and pants. I never wear shorts. I never wear dresses or skirts. I never wear open-toed shoes. All my clothes are baggy because I can't stand the sensation of clothes touching my skin. I try to avoid fabric touching my skin as much as possible. Basically, you can't get any more modest than me, except to wear Muslim garb or something.
And yet I've been raped many, many times. It really doesn't matter what you're wearing. Rapists pick up on your energy first, not your clothes. If they pick up on your clothes at all, it's secondary to picking up on your vulnerability.
I also saw it as satire, which is why I didn't respond to it. And you're right in that men do get raped, though I might disagree that in those cases women were always the rapists. There have been cases of men raping other men. Not nearly as often nor as reported as men raping women, but it does happen. As defiled as women feel after being raped, multiply that by ten for how a man might feel after being raped by another man. And that feeling of defilement is often why a man won't report such, because he doesn't want to be looked on by his friends as weak.
I don't think it's fair to say men feel more defiled than woman. It feels pretty defiling, no matter what the demographics of the perpetrator and victim are.
Really? Naked? Why? Have you not heard of hormones? Both men and women are animals. Ape manifestations.
What do you think a man is? Or a woman for that matter?
A blessed fairy?
Oh for heavens sake. If you are at the beach, and you see a woman in a one piece swimming suit (which covers a whole heck of a lot less than the average women dressed in skimpy clothing) do you throw her down on the beach in front of everyone and rape her? Men aren't raging animals that can't control themselves because of hormones--I live in a house with six "men" (my husband and teen boys) and I promise you--that's the dumbest argument I've ever heard.
That said, there are things that everyone can do to make them less likely to be a victim of a violent crime. Trust your gut and your instincts, and if a situation or a person makes you uncomfortable in any way, don't be afraid to get out of there. Women are brought up to be too "nice," and if you know someone casually you want to believe that they're ok, but it's not always the case. Stay in groups if you're in a place that could be potentially dangerous--it's harder to attack a group than one individual. Some of you might not want to hear this, but young women need to make sure that they stay with friends they can trust if they plan on going out at night and getting very drunk, because someone looking for someone to attack will hone in on you like a beacon if you don't have all your senses about you and you are alone and defenseless--rapists look for someone who they can control and they have access to, vs. someone based on attractiveness--because rape is about the thrill of having power over someone vs. about regular sex.
It is NEVER the victim's fault if they're raped, and sometimes there's nothing you could have done differently to stop it, but there are common sense steps you can take to reduce (not eliminate) your chance of being attacked.
My apologies if my post is repeating what a million other people have said--I got so disgusted after the first few pages that I stopped reading the rest of the thread.
IMHO - Rape is a violent assault that has more to do with control than sexuality.
I suggest an effective way of reducing rape is to train all women on the art of owning, carrying and using a hand gun. The proper response to a violent assault is a more violent way of preventing or ending it. Shooting the rapist after the act is also, IMHO, a proper thing to do.
IMHO - Rape is a violent assault that has more to do with control than sexuality.
That's what feminists wanted you to think so that's what they pushed into society relentlessly in the 70s and 80s. But a lot of rape is about sex. For example, date rape is often far more about wanting to get laid and not caring about the woman's feelings and very little about controlling women. But by making it all about control and power, they could tie it to the patriarchy and turn it into a women's rights issue - "no means no", "all men are potential rapists", "take back the night", etc. A lot of that politicization of rape has died down now but the rape must be about power thing was drilled into the public consciousness so much that it remains even years later.
That's what feminists wanted you to think so that's what they pushed into society relentlessly in the 70s and 80s. But a lot of rape is about sex. For example, date rape is often far more about wanting to get laid and not caring about the woman's feelings and very little about controlling women. But by making it all about control and power, they could tie it to the patriarchy and turn it into a women's rights issue - "no means no", "take back the night", etc. A lot of that politicization of rape has died down now but the rape must be about power thing was drilled into the public consciousness so much that it remains even years later.
All rape is about control.
Getting laid is consensual sex. What man wants to "get laid" with the woman pushing him away, biting him, scratching him, struggling to get him off of her, screaming no, crying and begging him to stop?
All rape is about dominance. The man may get his needs met by raping, but his needs aren't sexual in the case of rape. They are emotional. The man emotionally craves control and power, and he feels, momentarily, empowered by his ability to force a woman to comply with his demands. The problem is that for him the feeling of empowerment quickly fades away. And for her the feeling of being violated never goes away.
That's what feminists wanted you to think so that's what they pushed into society relentlessly in the 70s and 80s. But a lot of rape is about sex. For example, date rape is often far more about wanting to get laid and not caring about the woman's feelings and very little about controlling women. But by making it all about control and power, they could tie it to the patriarchy and turn it into a women's rights issue - "no means no", "all men are potential rapists", "take back the night", etc. A lot of that politicization of rape has died down now but the rape must be about power thing was drilled into the public consciousness so much that it remains even years later.
Oh, jeez.
I came up with many retorts to this, but my head is spinning so fast I can't type them out...
One comment...according to this post, rape is NOT a women's rights issue... : smack:
Do you think women are taking too little responsibility to decrease their chances of being raped?
I was reading a news article and a police officer was reprimanded for advising women to dress less provocatively.
The second paragraph seems to be to indicate that rape is inevitable and that there nothing women can do to avoid it.
It makes no sense. No one deserves anything bad to happen but there's always ways to decrease one's risk. It seems that everytime we give advice to women regarding rape, people will always claim that "we're blaming the victim".
An inproperly parked car doesn't deserve to be scraped, but that doesn't mean that I have no responsibility in parking it properly. You can argue that a drunk, alone, and provocatively dressed women have the right to walk home at 12AM. But, would you want your daughter to do that? Wouldn't you tell her to be more sober and take the taxi home?
If a women dresses like prostitute and wanders around at 2am in a bad neighborhood, they are responsible for their actions.
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