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The point is to take away the opporunity to rape, not what to do with the rapist after the fact. I still say woman should have escorts or travel in pairs. A rapist will not target a person with a witness.
I guess women should never be around friends of family members then either, since they are the ones who commit the most rapes on women .
After a couple of assaults and rapes on campus a woman friend asked me to teach her how to use a gun. I told her I could teach how to handle a gun but I could never teach her how to kill someone. So I told her to carry a knife and if assaulted just let the assailant grab the blade.
That should slow most assailants and stop most attempted rapes.
A responsible friend would have pointed her in the direction of a well qualified instructor willing to teach her what she wanted/needed to learn. While it is true the mideset of being able to use lethal force to defend her own life is her's to aquire; you did her no favors.
I'm a woman, and I've technically been a victim of rape. I suppose it falls under the "date rape" category. I accept SOME responsibility for it, because I want to think that, having grown and gained some wisdom, this would not happen to me now. I did, in a sense, bring it on myself. I never pressed charges, and have discussed it with very few people. I'm not traumatized. My self esteem is in no way damaged by my experience, although I felt horrible for a while after it occurred. I want to hope I LEARNED from it. I remain a strong and awesome woman. I'm not damaged. I'm just fine. I honestly don't care much about such things in my past, that chapter has been closed for a long time.
As a teenager I had the Mom who wanted to be my best friend, not my Mom. I suggested we go to a carnival that was set up in a parking lot in town. My Mom has a thing for hispanic dudes, and at 14 I was too young to know if I even HAD a "type"...I just wanted attention. Being attractive to men is a form of power for a female, and young females are just learning to wield it. I didn't have much paternal parenting to teach me to protect myself or that I could be a victim or was "prey"...I thought of myself as the predator. We dressed all hot and went to the carnival. My Mom wound up with a Mexican guy whom she eventually married. One of his friends came home with him/us and ended up raping me. I did say no. He had been drinking, I had not. I said no, and it didn't matter. I didn't scream or fight tooth and nail because in the moments before it happened, his insistent behavior made me feel that if I didn't at least "go quietly" I could be beaten or killed. This man was not a serial attack-rapist. But in his culture, if a woman dresses provocatively, he feels more entitled to take advantage. Proper girls are kept at home, protected by father or husband. I was fair game. I felt filthy, and learned that when my Mom's Mexican friends came over, I needed to not draw attention. I learned to look always at the floor and never to look them in the face, and that nonverbal cue kept their attention off of me in the years that followed. I wasn't lowering my eyes out of shame, I was trying to be invisible. Oddly, it worked. I feel it worth mentioning that I bear no ill to hispanics/Mexicans over this. I have plenty of respect for a number of elements of the culture I observed. Eventually I formed a more detached and clinical view of events and why they happened.
There are plenty of things that could have been done differently by me, or my parents, or whatever...that would have changed this outcome. I am quite calm and healthy enough to discuss this matter as an intellectual exercise and not from an emotional standpoint. I honestly think that there is a kernel of truth in every single thing everyone has said here. But I would be furious if someone were to rob me of the share of fault I have accepted for this, because that is what empowers me to avoid such a foolish situation in my present and future. It is an interesting point I raise with many Americans with regard to many things...accepting a share of responsibility doesn't mean you have to use it to beat yourself into a corner, it doesn't necessarily mean you deserve punishment. If you accept that perhaps your circumstances have to do with your own actions and choices, you then have the POWER to think about what you could do differently, and it can lead to improvement in your life situations. If you constantly say "it wasn't MY fault" then you place yourself in a place where there is NO HOPE for anything better. So the people saying that a woman has no ability to circumvent the occurance of rape with preventative behavior of any kind...is basically saying that we're all just helpless victims waiting to happen. No one is letting the rapist off the hook here. But I don't see why being an empowered female who tends to her own safety through whatever means is a bad thing.
A woman who is grabbed by a stranger and ASSAULTED is the victim of random crime. We all know this. The victims of these "animals" do not need to invite anything, and they can be anyone dressed in any way. But worrying about this is a bit like worrying about getting shot in a drive-by. Sure, use defensive behavior and common sense...what else can you do? But there ARE different kinds of rape, such as where ideas of consentuality get blurred by culture or mental incapacity. Culture is relevant...what is "slutty" to a Middle Easterner, to an American, or to a naked tribesman in the jungle whose entire community wears nothing...it is all subjective. The idea that men can be excused by having "urges" is absurd though, as a civilized society I'd hope we know better. But many men believe that a woman who advertises willingness has given a sort of implicit consent. When drugs or alcohol come into play, it blurs the lines because a woman who might normally say no, maybe won't...and a man who might normally understand a refusal, may not accept it while drunk. I had a friend in high school get gang raped by people we both considered friends, while all of them were drunk. What they did to her was far, far more heinous than what happened to me. I'm just thankful that in 1996 no one had camera phones. It could have been that much worse. Is it any wonder I've never been drunk in my life and want nothing to do with alcohol or anyone under its influence? Staying the heck away from drunk people is a fine thing to avoid rape and other affronts to one's person. And as my "inhibitions" are part of what makes me who I am and grants me common sense, I have no need to alter them.
Sorry for the novel, habit of mine, best wishes to everybody.
Do you think women are taking too little responsibility to decrease their chances of being raped?
I was reading a news article and a police officer was reprimanded for advising women to dress less provocatively.
The second paragraph seems to be to indicate that rape is inevitable and that there nothing women can do to avoid it.
It makes no sense. No one deserves anything bad to happen but there's always ways to decrease one's risk. It seems that everytime we give advice to women regarding rape, people will always claim that "we're blaming the victim".
An inproperly parked car doesn't deserve to be scraped, but that doesn't mean that I have no responsibility in parking it properly. You can argue that a drunk, alone, and provocatively dressed women have the right to walk home at 12AM. But, would you want your daughter to do that? Wouldn't you tell her to be more sober and take the taxi home?
rape is not about sex
it is about power
it has nothing to do with the woman, it has every thing to do with the sick SOB!
my daughter was repeatedly raped at knife point
she was in her own home!
I want stronger laws to protect women, not tell then it is their fault!
I am all for slicing their balls off, that way we can be sure they will not rape again!
how's that??
good grief!!
I think that, while I do not appreciate women running around like sluts, blaming them, even partially, for being raped is wrong. Even wrong behavior does not justify trespassing that physical border between people.
There is rape in Muslim societies as well, although it is a taboo there. So visual triggers are probably not the reason.
Nor is rape a modern phenomenon, there are aboriginal tribes where when a husband dies the whole tribe is allowed to rape the widow. Maybe it is just one of those evil aspects of the (hu)man mind
There is no such thing as a ****, thank you very much .
I'm a woman, and I've technically been a victim of rape. I suppose it falls under the "date rape" category. I accept SOME responsibility for it, because I want to think that, having grown and gained some wisdom, this would not happen to me now. I did, in a sense, bring it on myself. I never pressed charges, and have discussed it with very few people. I'm not traumatized. My self esteem is in no way damaged by my experience, although I felt horrible for a while after it occurred. I want to hope I LEARNED from it. I remain a strong and awesome woman. I'm not damaged. I'm just fine. I honestly don't care much about such things in my past, that chapter has been closed for a long time.
As a teenager I had the Mom who wanted to be my best friend, not my Mom. I suggested we go to a carnival that was set up in a parking lot in town. My Mom has a thing for hispanic dudes, and at 14 I was too young to know if I even HAD a "type"...I just wanted attention. Being attractive to men is a form of power for a female, and young females are just learning to wield it. I didn't have much paternal parenting to teach me to protect myself or that I could be a victim or was "prey"...I thought of myself as the predator. We dressed all hot and went to the carnival. My Mom wound up with a Mexican guy whom she eventually married. One of his friends came home with him/us and ended up raping me. I did say no. He had been drinking, I had not. I said no, and it didn't matter. I didn't scream or fight tooth and nail because in the moments before it happened, his insistent behavior made me feel that if I didn't at least "go quietly" I could be beaten or killed. This man was not a serial attack-rapist. But in his culture, if a woman dresses provocatively, he feels more entitled to take advantage. Proper girls are kept at home, protected by father or husband. I was fair game. I felt filthy, and learned that when my Mom's Mexican friends came over, I needed to not draw attention. I learned to look always at the floor and never to look them in the face, and that nonverbal cue kept their attention off of me in the years that followed. I wasn't lowering my eyes out of shame, I was trying to be invisible. Oddly, it worked. I feel it worth mentioning that I bear no ill to hispanics/Mexicans over this. I have plenty of respect for a number of elements of the culture I observed. Eventually I formed a more detached and clinical view of events and why they happened.
There are plenty of things that could have been done differently by me, or my parents, or whatever...that would have changed this outcome. I am quite calm and healthy enough to discuss this matter as an intellectual exercise and not from an emotional standpoint. I honestly think that there is a kernel of truth in every single thing everyone has said here. But I would be furious if someone were to rob me of the share of fault I have accepted for this, because that is what empowers me to avoid such a foolish situation in my present and future. It is an interesting point I raise with many Americans with regard to many things...accepting a share of responsibility doesn't mean you have to use it to beat yourself into a corner, it doesn't necessarily mean you deserve punishment. If you accept that perhaps your circumstances have to do with your own actions and choices, you then have the POWER to think about what you could do differently, and it can lead to improvement in your life situations. If you constantly say "it wasn't MY fault" then you place yourself in a place where there is NO HOPE for anything better. So the people saying that a woman has no ability to circumvent the occurance of rape with preventative behavior of any kind...is basically saying that we're all just helpless victims waiting to happen. No one is letting the rapist off the hook here. But I don't see why being an empowered female who tends to her own safety through whatever means is a bad thing.
A woman who is grabbed by a stranger and ASSAULTED is the victim of random crime. We all know this. The victims of these "animals" do not need to invite anything, and they can be anyone dressed in any way. But worrying about this is a bit like worrying about getting shot in a drive-by. Sure, use defensive behavior and common sense...what else can you do? But there ARE different kinds of rape, such as where ideas of consentuality get blurred by culture or mental incapacity. Culture is relevant...what is "slutty" to a Middle Easterner, to an American, or to a naked tribesman in the jungle whose entire community wears nothing...it is all subjective. The idea that men can be excused by having "urges" is absurd though, as a civilized society I'd hope we know better. But many men believe that a woman who advertises willingness has given a sort of implicit consent. When drugs or alcohol come into play, it blurs the lines because a woman who might normally say no, maybe won't...and a man who might normally understand a refusal, may not accept it while drunk. I had a friend in high school get gang raped by people we both considered friends, while all of them were drunk. What they did to her was far, far more heinous than what happened to me. I'm just thankful that in 1996 no one had camera phones. It could have been that much worse. Is it any wonder I've never been drunk in my life and want nothing to do with alcohol or anyone under its influence? Staying the heck away from drunk people is a fine thing to avoid rape and other affronts to one's person. And as my "inhibitions" are part of what makes me who I am and grants me common sense, I have no need to alter them.
Sorry for the novel, habit of mine, best wishes to everybody.
Sweetheart, you bear NO responsibility for being raped. Whether the man's cultural or personal background made him feel entitled, he wasn't entitled. He violated you. What you wore to the carnival didn't entitle him to force himself upon you. Your mother's lack of concern for you didn't entitle him to force himself upon you. His lack of respect for women didn't entitle him. And if he forced himself upon you because he felt entitled to do so, I think he probably forced himself upon other women. Which would make him a serial rapist.
You are an amazing woman. You are taking care of yourself and you've clearly thought a lot about what happened to you. The fact that you don't bear anyone any ill-will for what happened says just what an incredible human being you are. I hope that your life continues to be on track, that you continue to do well for yourself. Sometimes events like this, that we think we've resolved, have a nasty habit of haunting us. It's not a bad thing to talk with someone if that should happen. Because you've clearly gone way beyond the blame phase to healing yourself. And you're doing a great job of it! Best wishes to you.
Do you think women are taking too little responsibility to decrease their chances of being raped?
Yes, and it was Eve's fault that she listened to the serpent and took a bite of the apple. Different variants of this argument have been around since the very first woman got raped, lo these thousands of years ago.
Blaming the woman for dressing provocatively or being in the wrong place in the wrong time shows a complete ignorance of the dynamics of rape and what motivates some sicko to force himself upon a woman.
Rape is about establishing power over the victim, the sexual aspect is secondary at best. 80 year old grandmothers get raped when they have been asleep in their beds with all the doors locked. 5 year old girls get raped when some pervert lures them out of their yard where they have been playing dressed in coveralls and a T-Shirt. Women who reside in State Mental Hospitals and are rendered helpless by medication are raped by orderlies - this happened here in Colorado not all that long ago.
I suppose next you will be telling us that a pregnancy resulting from a rape is a gift from god, and the rape victim should be denied an abortion.
According to your logic, anyone who drives a Jaguar or other fancy sports car deserves to have it stolen for showing off. People who live in million dollar houses deserve to have burglars come in and steal everything they can find. If you have several credit cards with high end limits, you deserve for some criminal to hold you up at gunpoint at your ATM and force you to max out your card and give him the money.
In your world, all women should wear the purdah, everyone should drive a clunker with 200,000 miles on it, live in a shack with no electricity, and get rid of any credit cards they might have acquired.
You bet, women "ask" for it. I have a few choice words for you, but you'll have to imagine them because I'd get banned for eternity if I included them in this post.
Sweetheart, you bear NO responsibility for being raped. Whether the man's cultural or personal background made him feel entitled, he wasn't entitled. He violated you. What you wore to the carnival didn't entitle him to force himself upon you. Your mother's lack of concern for you didn't entitle him to force himself upon you. His lack of respect for women didn't entitle him. And if he forced himself upon you because he felt entitled to do so, I think he probably forced himself upon other women. Which would make him a serial rapist.
You are an amazing woman. You are taking care of yourself and you've clearly thought a lot about what happened to you. The fact that you don't bear anyone any ill-will for what happened says just what an incredible human being you are. I hope that your life continues to be on track, that you continue to do well for yourself. Sometimes events like this, that we think we've resolved, have a nasty habit of haunting us. It's not a bad thing to talk with someone if that should happen. Because you've clearly gone way beyond the blame phase to healing yourself. And you're doing a great job of it! Best wishes to you.
This was sort of my point. In your kindness, you diminish me, though you don't mean to. I think it is far more valid and relevant if I make my own decision about how much responsibility I bear or not. The only thing that mitigates it to me is my Mother, who should have been able to stand up to her teen so many times but didn't have the strength to fight. As a parent myself now, I know that you have to work relentlessly to make your kids see the right path. It is not a job for the lazy or faint of heart. Sometimes you have to stop being a cool parent long enough to be a GOOD one. I tried to explain...I WANT my share of the blame. I appreciate acknowledging when I've made mistakes. Because then I can learn, move on, and live better. Your way, I'm just a poor pitiful victim, someday doomed to taste failure in life while haunted by my past. No. I want no excuses. My culpability is my strength. It is how I grow.
As for awesome, you bet I am. I taught myself how to build a computer last year, and I have platonic and respectful friendship of some legitimately semi-famous rockstars. My life kicks butt! And I got no time at all to feel sorry for myself, and no reason in the world. Life is a mixed bag. You can count your blessings or wallow in your sorrows. I choose responsibility, and I choose happiness.
Do you think women are taking too little responsibility to decrease their chances of being raped?
I was reading a news article and a police officer was reprimanded for advising women to dress less provocatively.
The second paragraph seems to be to indicate that rape is inevitable and that there nothing women can do to avoid it.
It makes no sense. No one deserves anything bad to happen but there's always ways to decrease one's risk. It seems that everytime we give advice to women regarding rape, people will always claim that "we're blaming the victim".
An inproperly parked car doesn't deserve to be scraped, but that doesn't mean that I have no responsibility in parking it properly. You can argue that a drunk, alone, and provocatively dressed women have the right to walk home at 12AM. But, would you want your daughter to do that? Wouldn't you tell her to be more sober and take the taxi home?
WOW, I can still be amazed by the stupidity of some posters regarding some issues.
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