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Old 03-05-2011, 12:32 PM
 
3,513 posts, read 1,158,916 times
Reputation: 1357
im against the mandate as well since i dont want to pay for health insurance. i believe its throwing away money.

so yea, the taxpayers will subsidize me if i ever get sick, but thats the way the system is.

i will never willingly buy health insurance. i dont need it. i dont want it.
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Old 03-05-2011, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Long Island, New York
15,149 posts, read 4,980,655 times
Reputation: 3278
Quote:
Originally Posted by emilybh View Post

Doctor and Congressman Ron Paul said he used to work delivering babies on an emergency basis and got paid $3.00 an hour and he went to Duke Medical School! That was probably in the early 60's but still!
yeah...lets mandate that doctors and nurses make only $3/hr

the only doctors left will be quacks
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Old 03-05-2011, 12:37 PM
 
8,293 posts, read 2,685,078 times
Reputation: 2100
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
NO singlepayer will not lower costs

it will not lower the cost of a plastercast
it will not lower the cost of a mri machine
it will not lower the cost of a xray machine made in denmark
it will not lower the rent/lease/mortgage on that doctors office
will it make perscription drugs cheaper....no
will they lower the costs of running a hospital or doctors office....no
will they lower the electric costs to run a hospital/doctors office...NO...in fact with cap and trade, everyone electric bills will be going UP

singlepayer will not lower anything..it will cost 2.5 to 5 trillion a year...AND RISING

do you really think nurses will want to work for minimum wage????

remember when you pay the doctor xxxx amount of dollars, that is not just going into the doctors pocket...it covers his rent/mortgage/property taxes, his electric bills, his water and other utilities, any equipment he has/wishes to purchase, and his help (nurse, recept,transcriptionist, etc)...and that equipment he bought has to be paid for...if he bought an xray or mri.. he is SAVING you because he is providing you better service, and easier service (doesnt have to send you ELSEWHERE to a radialogist for an ADDDITIONAL fee from that seperate entity)..an MRI machine is about 1.3 million dollars( even if he paid 10k a month (a pretty hefty bill) it would take hime 10 years (10kx12monthsx10 years=1.2 million) to pay it off...do you really think the doctor can lkower his bill much more and still afford to keep his doors open???
First MRI's are overused. Second, it has nothing to
do with a single payer insurance system

Single-Payer FAQ | Physicians for a National Health Program



"One approach is to carefully control new capital expenditures. Once a hospital or imaging center purchases a multimillion-dollar CT scanner, it will try to generate enough scans to pay off the fixed cost. Explicit health planning should be done to assure that expensive machines and facilities are sited where they are needed and not where they are redundant and likely to generate overuse.

Another approach is to compare physicians’ use of tests and procedures to their peers with similar patients. A physician who is “off the curve” will stand out. A related approach is to set spending targets for each specialty. This encourages doctors to be prudent stewards and to make sure their colleagues are as well, because any doctor doing unnecessary procedures will be taking money away from colleagues.

In addition, expert guidelines by groups like the American College of Physicians, etc., can help shape professional standards - which will certainly change over time as treatments change. This really gets to the heart of “how do you improve the quality of health care,” which is a longer topic. Suffice it to say that single-payer, universal coverage provides a framework for achieving thoughtful quality improvement.

What will happen to physician incomes?

On the basis of the Canadian experience under national health insurance, we expect that average physician incomes should change little. However, the income disparity between specialties is likely to shrink.

The increase in patient visits when financial barriers fall under a single-payer system will be offset by resources freed up by a drastic reduction in administrative overhead and physicians’ paperwork. Billing would involve imprinting the patient’s national health program card on a charge slip, checking a box to indicate the complexity of the procedure or service, and sending the slip (or a computer record) to the physician-payment board.

How will we keep drug prices under control?

When all patients are under one system, the payer wields a lot of clout. The VA gets a 40% discount on drugs because of its buying power. This “monopsony” buying power is the main reason why other countries’ drug prices are lower than ours. This also explains the drug industry’s staunch opposition to single-payer national health insurance."

Single-Payer FAQ | Physicians for a National Health Program
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Old 03-05-2011, 12:37 PM
 
Location: in my imagination
10,039 posts, read 12,560,268 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emilybh View Post
If they settled at $10,000 a fair price was probably around $3500 and that is all anyone should have to pay.

I have personally negotiated lower rates than what I was billed for even though I had medical insurance. People need to NOT BE INTIMIDATED BY MEDICAL BILLS.

Just because you receive a bill doesn't mean you owe it. !

Well that is odd, because 5 days ago a collection agency called me saying they took over the last portion I owe from out of pocket from the operation and I have 2 weeks to pay or it goes on my credit record.
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Old 03-05-2011, 12:47 PM
 
8,293 posts, read 2,685,078 times
Reputation: 2100
Quote:
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Well then you have this situation. A law or policy is enacted and someone can take it to court and call it unconstitutional and maybe they will win.

However if they do win the situation will be left as this....

Taxes for covering those who can't get insurance or afford treatment will be ended, and so will those people's treatment. Insuance and the medical industry as free enterprise will be free to charge whatever they want and deny who ever they want. Those who cannot pay will be left to die or suffer.

Now, seeing as how all of us sooner or later will develop some sort of emergency , sooner or later we will all be left in financial ruin or death and or suffering under that scenerio.. Sooner or later after you develop your emergency your insurance will deem you undesirable forth on. Unless you are a multi millionaire which in that case 20K or so a year to continue your life or stop pain is pocket change to pay......
Medicare for All is constitutional.


Congress designed Medicare to promote the general welfare of the United States. The program's financing mechanisms proceed under the taxing and spending powers, together with the commerce clause.
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Old 03-05-2011, 12:51 PM
 
161 posts, read 62,396 times
Reputation: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
Wrong.. they reason they force you to buy car insurance is to protect OTHERS.. If you wreck into someone else and cause THEM damages, you are insuring THEM..

Health insurance is to protect YOU.. Sorry, the government isnt there to protect you from yourself.. they are there to protect you from others..

Also, not everyone is required to buy car insurance.. Yes, there are self insurance policies available and yes, certain people of wealth, can quality to be car insurance exempt...

The car insurance analagy is so flawed, that I cant believe people are still using it..

Thats EXACTLY describes Obamacare.. Pay your $500 fine every year.. and because they have precluded pre-existing conditions, when you get sick, buy healthcare and get coverage.. You admitted a second ago this is bad. Do you still support Obamacare?
The car insurance analogy doesn't fit like a square peg, but it does prove certain points. By making everyone get auto insurance, IT IS protecting you as well as the other person. Meaning you're not going to go broke trying to pay for someone else's expenses. It's good policy for everyone driving.

I don't 100% agree with all of the healthcare reform bill but I still think it's a step in the right direction, but without a public option, it's not as effective as I think it would have been.
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Old 03-05-2011, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Long Island, New York
15,149 posts, read 4,980,655 times
Reputation: 3278
Quote:
Originally Posted by pollyrobin View Post
First MRI's are overused.
no xrays are overused and dont find the problem

example

after I got hurt in Iraq, the va xrayed my back.......20 times......could not find the problem...they said DDD.....

I paid for ONE , MRi and found the 2 herniated discs.....and then started getting the treatment, had my back surgery in 2007

my father has medicare(he is 82) they spend more money on xrays than they would with one mri

the FACT is that singlepayer will not lower the costs of ANYTHING, especially if they are the ones paying...because they will pay for the 'cheaper' test..even if running that 'cheaper' test 20 times will cost more than the one 'more expensive' test that will actually find the roblem

and singlepayer will not lower any of the assosiacate costs of delivering medicine( ie it wont lower fuel costs, it wont lower electric costs...it wont lower realestate costs...it wont lower salary costs)

singlepayer will not do anything except FORCE the few taxpayers to pay for the many
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Old 03-05-2011, 12:58 PM
 
3,513 posts, read 1,158,916 times
Reputation: 1357
whatever they do, no mandate. dont force me to buy what i dont want and what i dont need.
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Old 03-05-2011, 01:26 PM
 
55,121 posts, read 26,385,760 times
Reputation: 6864
Quote:
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Insurers will pay? Check out my thread here. My appendix operation (one night in the hospital stay) had a bill of 30k,
Individuals can do the same.. I had hand reconstructive surgery last year on both hands and my total out of pocket expense was $6,500.. That included the week long stay in the hospital..
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Old 03-05-2011, 01:28 PM
 
55,121 posts, read 26,385,760 times
Reputation: 6864
Quote:
Originally Posted by LetMePost View Post
The car insurance analogy doesn't fit like a square peg, but it does prove certain points. By making everyone get auto insurance, IT IS protecting you as well as the other person. Meaning you're not going to go broke trying to pay for someone else's expenses. It's good policy for everyone driving.

I don't 100% agree with all of the healthcare reform bill but I still think it's a step in the right direction, but without a public option, it's not as effective as I think it would have been.
But they dont make EVERYONE get auto insurance.. do they?
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