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Old 03-01-2011, 05:20 AM
 
Location: Long Island
57,271 posts, read 26,206,502 times
Reputation: 15641

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
It IS different - and I'm critical of Bush for both the decision to go into Iraq AND ESPECIALLY the lousy method in which it was done.

What I'm NOT critical of is the conclusion he drew that Saddam had WMDs - since virtually everyone else thought the SAME THING.

Ken
That’s the same type of thinking that got us into trouble in Vietnam with the “Domino Theory”. We entered WW2 for some very good reasons, not because we “thought”, This was not WW2, Bush should have know better considering his father wrote a book recommending against an invasion and occupation. Rumsfeld even laid out the possible negatives like the war could last 6-8 years (I wish) and that there might not be any WMD but he ignored the risk. If we were going to invade one country with a madman at the helm with possible WMD it seems that North Korea would have been the obvious choice.

Rumsfld thought we could beat them with our superior firepower and technology with minimal ground casualties but has never been the case. Bush, Cheney, Powell and Rumsfeld were praised for their strong military background and knowledge; it appears that was vastly overstated. Any fool can see we didn’t have enough ground forces and lacking a draft we shouldn’t have even attempted to go into Iraq. I’m not sure what the purpose of the book is but all it tells me is that Rumsfeld is still in denial.
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Old 03-01-2011, 05:29 AM
 
Location: Chicagoland
41,325 posts, read 44,944,793 times
Reputation: 7118
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
I don't fault Bush for thinking that either - however it's completely BOGUS to claim that Clinton "folded". The fact is Clinton was SUCCESSFUL in ridding Iraq of WMDs - he just didn't know it because Saddam didn't WANT anyone to KNOW IT so Saddam continued to plant hints here & there that the UNSCOM inspectors were missing things - and NONE of that would have changed no matter HOW LONG the UNSCOM inspectors remained there. The fact is the inspectors were serving no purpose anymore because there was NOTHING more to FIND.
DUH!


Ken
Clinton folded when it came to enforcing the 16 UN sanctions against Iraq, having to do with inspections AND letting him get away with attacking our forces daily.
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Old 03-01-2011, 05:48 AM
 
11,135 posts, read 14,193,095 times
Reputation: 3696
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
It IS different - and I'm critical of Bush for both the decision to go into Iraq AND ESPECIALLY the lousy method in which it was done.

What I'm NOT critical of is the conclusion he drew that Saddam had WMDs - since virtually everyone else thought the SAME THING.

Ken
Virtually everyone else DID NOT think or believe the same thing.

The chief UN weapons inspector had been telling everyone for weeks, they didn't exist as stated. The reason many people think this is because THEY WANTED TO BELIEVE IT, not because it was what 'virtually everyone' believed.

As one of the very few people who from the beginning called it bunk, I was one of the very few people standing there with a fist full of articles from a great number of academics and military commanders who were saying the same thing while having my life threatened because I was un-patriotic, un-American, and a terrorist sympathizer. Most Americans were swept up in "March to War" and cute little flag graphics that were waving at the bottom of each and every single TV set in America, being told by the ministers of bunk from the pulpit of the press, endorsed with a stamp of approval from good ole U S of A.
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Old 03-01-2011, 06:48 AM
 
Location: North America
19,784 posts, read 15,111,393 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanrene View Post
Clinton folded when it came to enforcing the 16 UN sanctions against Iraq, having to do with inspections AND letting him get away with attacking our forces daily.

Operation Desert Fox took care of the remaining weapons factories.

Please, Sanrene, put the responsibility, for once, on the right Administration. The Bush Administration.
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Old 03-01-2011, 05:15 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,330,678 times
Reputation: 7627
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanrene View Post
Clinton folded when it came to enforcing the 16 UN sanctions against Iraq, having to do with inspections AND letting him get away with attacking our forces daily.
What a bunch of ignorant partisan garbage.
Clinton did no such thing.
1) Enforcing the sanctions was NOT Clinton's responsibility. They were UN sanctions NOT just American sanctions. Clinton didn't RUN the UN.

2) The sanctions WORKED. Saddam dismantled his WMDs & shut down his WMD program - which was the GOAL of the UN sanctions.

Ken
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Old 03-01-2011, 05:27 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,330,678 times
Reputation: 7627
Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
Virtually everyone else DID NOT think or believe the same thing.

The chief UN weapons inspector had been telling everyone for weeks, they didn't exist as stated. The reason many people think this is because THEY WANTED TO BELIEVE IT, not because it was what 'virtually everyone' believed.
Yes, virtually everyone else DID believe the same thing - this was true of leaders on BOTH sides of the political aisle in BOTH administrations. Did the chief UN weapons inspector believe it? Of course not. He couldn't find any weapons & had faith he & his inspectors were doing a good job - but the inspectors were in the distinct minority (hence my use of the word "virtually").

The fact is world leaders from MANY different countries, government officials & politicians on BOTH side of the political aisle in BOTH administrations, even Saddam's OWN GENERALS all thought Saddam still had WMDs.
Did EVERY SINGLE PERSON think that?
Of course not.
But the vast majority of folks (both in positions of power and not - and both here in the US and overseas) thought Saddam still had WMDs - for the simple reason that Saddam WANTED them to think that.

Ken
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Old 03-02-2011, 01:22 AM
 
1,348 posts, read 2,858,110 times
Reputation: 1247
The War on Iraq was nothing but a cynical stupid manipulative political scheme.

And it has costed our country dearly. The US has paid a historic price for this folly, as only time will continue to reveal.
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Old 03-03-2011, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Long Island
57,271 posts, read 26,206,502 times
Reputation: 15641
The prior administration went int this know we did not have the military forces to support and win the war in either country, 10 years later and far from victory.
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Old 03-03-2011, 08:17 PM
 
Location: Long Island
57,271 posts, read 26,206,502 times
Reputation: 15641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill61 View Post
Too bad we didn't rise up as a nation and demand these answers before we allowed our government to illegally invade a sovereign nation under false pretenses.
I blame congress along with Bush for not asking enough tough questions.
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Old 03-03-2011, 08:24 PM
 
19,226 posts, read 15,321,408 times
Reputation: 2337
Quote:
Originally Posted by sacramento916 View Post
The War on Iraq was nothing but a cynical stupid manipulative political scheme.

And it has costed our country dearly. The US has paid a historic price for this folly, as only time will continue to reveal.
Indirectly, I was a costed by the scheme.
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