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I'm not a dem. I grew up in a republican home, with a mom who was a teacher and an AFT member--all my sibs are in education now. I voted R for 30 years, and I plan on doing it again, but this time for moderates, and if they don't get the nomination, democrats in the general. I'm not alone--this issue has managed to light a fire under a whole bunch of moderate R's who think the folks put in office during the last round of elections are going too far.
And yet Gallup reports that 71% of Americans don't want to pay more taxes.
How do the public employee unions reconcile that with their expectation to be able to demand more from the taxpayers?
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Your argument about monetary issues (no matter how often you try to repeat it) is old. Bargaining for non monetary issue doesn't impact the budget. This is purely about ideology.
Again... list these supposed non monetary issues, and prove that they don't impact state or local budgets.
mb1547 is correct. You RWs said the same things about the Tea Partiers. This is another group of people who is "mad as hell and not going to take it any more".
No no no dear. This is a manufactured lie, propagated by the left wing and funded by the unions. This is not a grass roots movement by any means.
The is nothing more than the dems/libs/unions getting all up in a fuss because their funding is about to be taken to the cleaners.
EL
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I am enjoying seeing them taken down, BIG TIME. For too long we've seen their corrupt nature, and finally when it comes to brass tacks, the people of this country have spoken up.
mb1547 is correct. You RWs said the same things about the Tea Partiers. This is another group of people who is "mad as hell and not going to take it any more".
This group of people are sucking on the taxpayers to pay for their super deals with government - that's why you won't see any sympathy from everyday Americans for the unions - they are sick and tired of footing the bill for these golden plans.
This group of people are sucking on the taxpayers to pay for their super deals with government - that's why you won't see any sympathy from everyday Americans for the unions - they are sick and tired of footing the bill for these golden plans.
I see plenty of support for unions right here on CD. Don't get going on this "real Americans" thing. It will come to a bad end.
The leadership of the Methodists, the Catholics, the Baptists, the Jewish Community, and 70 other faith leaders in Wisconsin are weighing in to support the right of public workers to collectively bargaining.
This IS a human rights issue.
Here's an excerpt from the letter signed by the religious leaders--you can read the rest below:
"As people of faith, we oppose Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker’s plan to deny collective bargaining rights for public employees. Our religious traditions are very clear that workers, as human beings that have inherent dignity, have the right to form associations to improve their conditions at work...Teachers, public health workers, county/municipal employees and all people who provide vital services to our communities are under attack, falsely blamed for budget problems caused by the unemployment crisis and the drop in state revenues as businesses have closed, fewer people pay taxes, and consumers spend less. Wholesale attacks on public servants will only worsen this situation. Therefore we urge our legislators and Governor Walker to stop this bill and stand for genuine efforts to create jobs, improve standards, and respect all people who work and contribute to their families and communities."
There is always a loophole to get involved on some issue. It is an issue between the government and the employees that serve the people of the state. It is about human rights issues. It is whether civil service workers should unionized. To me it is a no. The people is that taxpayer that decides how much to pay and to negotiate pay. Unions are not a right. They have the right to negotiate all the want but to have a union dictate the people what to pay is another story. Also, it is a state issue so churches need to stay out of that, take care.
You can't proclaim the "Good News of Jesus Christ" without trying to live the message he gave. That translates into every aspect of your life, including public policy. That's why churches feel a moral obligation to speak out if they see a public wrong.
James 2: 14-17: "What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead."
Churches do need to speak out on moral issues, but not on policy issues. There is a difference. Not all policy issues are moral issues. The problem is, the churches speak to policy issues all the time, issueing press releases, taking votes at conventions and conferences, taking official stands, etc. Is the difference between a government employee having to pay 5% or 20% of their health care costs a moral issue? I hardly think so.
Go to just about any mainline church and see how much emphasis they place on social justice issues vs. how much they place on faith issues.
I'm not a dem. I grew up in a republican home, with a mom who was a teacher and an AFT member--all my sibs are in education now. I voted R for 30 years, and I plan on doing it again, but this time for moderates, and if they don't get the nomination, democrats in the general. I'm not alone--this issue has managed to light a fire under a whole bunch of moderate R's who think the folks put in office during the last round of elections are going too far. Time to take the party back.
Your argument about monetary issues (no matter how often you try to repeat it) is old. Bargaining for non monetary issue doesn't impact the budget. This is purely about ideology.
Actually it is about morality. It is about the unholy alliance between public sector unions and politicians, mainly Democrats, who rape the taxpayer for power and money.
Actually it is about morality. It is about the unholy alliance between public sector unions and politicians, mainly Democrats, who rape the taxpayer for power and money.
I don't think I'd go there--collective bargaining is a two way street, and if the unions have been successful at it previously, it doesn't mean they're going to get the same deal in a bad economy. In Wisconsin, the employees agreed to every financial concession that Walker asked for--at this point it's all about whether they have the right to bargain at all for non-monetary items, and that's why the churches are involved.
If you want to talk about "raping the tax payer" lets look at the perks big business gets in this country. I'm a small business owner--I create jobs, and I pay out the nose in taxes. Why is it that out of the top 100 corporations in this country, 80 pay ZERO in taxes, while many get government pork, hire off shore, and invest their profits off shore? (as a tax avoidance strategy) Do you think that might have something to do with the fact that they're the major campaign funders for the republicans? THAT'S an abuse of power and money, and it needs to stop. That's why those same groups are trying to break the only voice left for the middle class in elections--the unions. They don't want to end their gravy train.
I'm all for cutting the corporate tax rate to make it competitive with the rest of the world and encourage investment in this country, but they have to cut the loopholes and pork that let many companies making huge profits pay absolutely nothing. People want policy that supports private sector job creation in this country, but they don't want this union busting nonsense.
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