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Old 03-01-2011, 01:56 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
8,182 posts, read 9,208,437 times
Reputation: 3632

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan View Post
That makes the assumption that gay marriage is a weakening agent to the institution of marriage. Care to show any evidence to support that assumption? Bible verses don't count, actual data, please.
Actually, I have a great bible verse for you.

Matthew 19:6

"So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

It seems like many Christians fear that two married gay men in another city can tear apart what God joined. Talk about a lack of faith!
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Old 03-01-2011, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Seattle Area
3,451 posts, read 7,052,482 times
Reputation: 3614
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvinist View Post
If we continue to water down the institution of marriage it will weaken it. Marriage as an institution strengthens society.
How exactly is gay marriage going to water down the institution of marriage?

The question has been asked repeatedly by me and other members here...and nobody has given a satisfactory answer.
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Old 03-01-2011, 02:07 PM
 
7,871 posts, read 10,126,788 times
Reputation: 3241
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvinist View Post
If we continue to water down the institution of marriage it will weaken it.
Again, how? Seems to me we are adding more marriages, would would increase the marriage concentration in any hypothetical marriage solution.

Quote:
Marriage as an institution strengthens society.

Then let's have more of it by extending it to include homosexuals.

See, subconciously you know we are right.
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Old 03-01-2011, 02:46 PM
 
14,917 posts, read 13,095,708 times
Reputation: 4828
Calif AG asks court to lift gay marriage stay - The Denver Post (http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_17511806 - broken link)

"California's attorney general asked a federal appeals court on Tuesday to allow gay marriages to resume while the court considers the constitutionality of the state's ban on same-sex unions...In her letter to the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, state Attorney General Kamala Harris said the sponsors of the voter-approved ban, known as Proposition 8, were unlikely to prevail in their appeal to reinstate the ban that was struck down by a trial judge."
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Old 03-01-2011, 02:48 PM
 
17,291 posts, read 29,391,510 times
Reputation: 8691
Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
Almost an answer, cool!Good try.

Ok, exactly how will yours or my marriage weaken? Walk me through it. What specifically, not general platitudes, please use examples, what will happen. Graphs and charts are fine also!
The problem with conservative arguments in the United States on any "morality" issue is that they believe the United States is the only country in the world. They forget that other nations have vastly different laws, and have legalized many of the things conservatives believe Americans shouldn't have the freedom to pursue. Everything from gay marriage and gays in the military, to prostitution and legalization of certain drugs. We can look to those countries to see how things work out.

They make dire predictions based on assumptions that are not borne out in other countries. Has society fallen apart in the nations where gay marriage is legal? Hard case to make when the "social prosperity indicators" of other nations exceed those of the United States in many categories. Have the militaries where gays serve openly disintegrated into chaos?

American conservatives live in a bubble. And that's their first problem.
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Old 03-01-2011, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
24,508 posts, read 33,295,278 times
Reputation: 7622
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
American conservatives live in a bubble. And that's their first problem.
Take a look at the (lower) crime rate and births to unwed teenage mothers back when America was more conservative and compare it to today.
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Old 03-01-2011, 03:16 PM
 
20,454 posts, read 12,373,731 times
Reputation: 10250
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
If people today are as much homophobe as is obvious, why am I not surprised that they were more so about 2000 years ago when these stories were written?
strictly speaking in the historic context, I think it is a false asumption you are making.

sexual attitudes in general were vastly less strict 2000 years ago than they are today.

vastly.

Greek culture dominated the middle east and there is a reason we use the term "greek love" for gay sex.

gay sex was in fact practiced in a religious context by certain sects.
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Old 03-01-2011, 03:48 PM
 
17,291 posts, read 29,391,510 times
Reputation: 8691
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet View Post
Take a look at the (lower) crime rate and births to unwed teenage mothers back when America was more conservative and compare it to today.

This has to do with the topic, how, exactly?

Compare the crime rates of more liberal nations than ours to America. Compare the crime rates of liberal states to "conservative" states.
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Old 03-01-2011, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
24,508 posts, read 33,295,278 times
Reputation: 7622
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
This has to do with the topic, how, exactly?
Because you mentioned conservatives.

Quote:
Compare the crime rates of more liberal nations than ours to America. Compare the crime rates of liberal states to "conservative" states.
Hard to make a relevant comparison because there are so many factors. The United States has over 300 million people, many of whom are from another country.

Also, as I said, compare the crime rate when America was a more conservative country (1950s and earlier) to today.
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Old 03-01-2011, 03:58 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
8,182 posts, read 9,208,437 times
Reputation: 3632
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
strictly speaking in the historic context, I think it is a false asumption you are making.

sexual attitudes in general were vastly less strict 2000 years ago than they are today.

vastly.

Greek culture dominated the middle east and there is a reason we use the term "greek love" for gay sex.

gay sex was in fact practiced in a religious context by certain sects.
Good point, most references in the bible regarding sex have more to do with temple prostitution and cult practices than they do sex.

The lone exception being adultery since that practice does involve a victim.
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