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Old 05-06-2011, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Holiday, FL
1,577 posts, read 1,676,007 times
Reputation: 1151

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Quote:
Originally Posted by calibro1 View Post
Or how about simply allowing private businesses to put whatever commercials they want and whatever languages on THEIR ATMs?

Why not allow the government to use what has been the best solution appease most of the most people of the time (in regards to language)?

Why not simply not butt into other people's conversations?

Live your life...don't worry about other people's conversations.
I'm afraid I do not agree. There are laws against discrimination. According to the laws, as passed, if they are going to put one or two additional languages on or in anything, then they must put ALL additional languages there as well. Every language on earth. If they do not, they are discriminating.
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Old 05-06-2011, 10:30 AM
 
2,210 posts, read 1,535,425 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_windwalker View Post
I'm afraid I do not agree. There are laws against discrimination. According to the laws, as passed, if they are going to put one or two additional languages on or in anything, then they must put ALL additional languages there as well. Every language on earth. If they do not, they are discriminating.
So you're against freedom of speech? It's not discrimination; you are allowed to use those services and/or goods. However, you don't. That's not discrimination.
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Old 05-06-2011, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Holiday, FL
1,577 posts, read 1,676,007 times
Reputation: 1151
Quote:
Originally Posted by calibro1 View Post
So you're against freedom of speech? It's not discrimination; you are allowed to use those services and/or goods. However, you don't. That's not discrimination.
I have no problem with the freedom of speech. No problem what so ever. I speak Polish when ever I can where I'm among people that understand the language.

What I do object to, is that the services offered, are are not evenly distributed across the spectrum. Where are the Native American languages? They are still spoken, and they were here before Hispanic or English. Why are a few favored and the rest discriminated against? If you're going to offer a couple of languages, you need to offer all of them. That's not being against freedom of speech. It's enhancing it.

Go ahead and speak Spanish. And, I'll speak Polish. And in doing so, I'll look at you and smile, and you'll have no idea if I've complimented you or insulted you.
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Old 05-06-2011, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Cumberland Co., TN
20,121 posts, read 20,612,053 times
Reputation: 20443
Quote:
Originally Posted by calibro1 View Post
I know A LOT of Africans that speak ONLY French. Same with Koreans, Chinese, and Indians. You do realize that it's based on generation? The first generation is not likely to know English well. It's later generations that pick up the language. Spanish speakers follow the same pattern.
Yes I know it is generally the older people that dont learn English. I stated the one I knew could not speak English was an old woman. It is not the older generation that is in the workforce or the schools or dealing with public offices that demand to do business in their native tounge.

I dont think anyone has a problem with people speaking a different language in their private affairs but it is when they bring it into government business and the workplace that it becomes a problem. And the problem with having businesses conducted in whatever language they choose is that this will cause alienation and division instead of unity.
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Old 05-06-2011, 11:14 PM
 
2,210 posts, read 1,535,425 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares View Post
Yes I know it is generally the older people that dont learn English. I stated the one I knew could not speak English was an old woman. It is not the older generation that is in the workforce or the schools or dealing with public offices that demand to do business in their native tounge.

I dont think anyone has a problem with people speaking a different language in their private affairs but it is when they bring it into government business and the workplace that it becomes a problem. And the problem with having businesses conducted in whatever language they choose is that this will cause alienation and division instead of unity.
NOT OLDER. First generation, meaning first to immigrate to this country. I'm having a hard time learning Korean. I'm picking it up and making an effort. If I have kids here in Korea, they will have a much easier time and most likely be more fluent than I. Their kids would be wholly assimilated. I'm not old...I'm 25, but simply because I'm first generation to Korea (not that I'm emigrating to Korea...I'm an expat) my Korean right now consists of only knowing how to read and a few phrases. Even people that lived here for years have atrocious Korean.

First generation migrants are not going to be perfectly fluent.
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Old 05-06-2011, 11:25 PM
 
2,210 posts, read 1,535,425 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_windwalker View Post
I have no problem with the freedom of speech. No problem what so ever. I speak Polish when ever I can where I'm among people that understand the language.

What I do object to, is that the services offered, are are not evenly distributed across the spectrum. Where are the Native American languages? They are still spoken, and they were here before Hispanic or English. Why are a few favored and the rest discriminated against? If you're going to offer a couple of languages, you need to offer all of them. That's not being against freedom of speech. It's enhancing it.

Go ahead and speak Spanish. And, I'll speak Polish. And in doing so, I'll look at you and smile, and you'll have no idea if I've complimented you or insulted you.
Je parles Francais. Je pense que les gens comme vous ne comprenez pas. Si vous n'aimez pas les services en Espangol, c'est pas obligatoire de l'utiliser.

(I will do a literal translation)

I speak French. I think that the people like you comprehend not. If you like not the services in Spanish, it is not obligatory to them use.

Sometimes it is better to reach out demographic in the native tongue as to avoid problems of communication as illustrated in the literal translation. Businesses may seek out these demographics and try fulfill a market need. So it's not discriminatory since nobody is not allowing you to use those services. If you were to start up a Polish firm, then I would assume that you would not discriminate at the door (no non Polish speakers allowed). You're fulfilling a market niche.

Bringing up Native Americans is problematic since there was a de facto genocide. Many of them later were forced into assimilation. These two factors are why there is little in the way of markets for them.
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Old 05-07-2011, 07:57 AM
 
Location: New Hampshire
4,828 posts, read 4,664,622 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
It's not just studies. It's a FACT that welfare offices must now cater to the immigrants in Spanish
100% TRUE.

I saw it with my own eyes a little over a week ago. Needless to say I wasn't shocked.....but I am very disappointed.

Especially after the folks who were being assisted by an Spanish speaking interpreter drove off in a BMW.
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Old 05-07-2011, 08:03 AM
 
Location: New Hampshire
4,828 posts, read 4,664,622 times
Reputation: 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by calibro1 View Post
It's not an excuse. I'm going out on a limb here and going to assume that you were born in the US. See, I wasn't. I actually know immigrants pretty well and know what its like. My mom is from Cote d'Ivoire. We know a lot of first generation immigrants that don't speak English...but French.
You are correct. I was born here...but lived abroad from the time I was 5 until 18...and I learned the language spoken in the country I lived in.

Nobody ever catered to Americans, Italians, Russians where I lived. They always used to say "Learn my language or don't come here".

I also lived in Quebec and guess what, learned some French - though I am not as fluent in it as I am in English and Portuguese.

I think it's funny you say you know immigrants pretty well. My dad is an immigrant...He didn't speak English upon arriving in the United States in late 60's. He learned the language though. He said he wanted to succeed and to become an American. He didn't expect anyone to learn his language. You see, he left his country to come to this country. He made the CHOICE to do so.

There are plenty of Portuguese speaking folks in New England. He could have easily done the exact same things the Spanish speaking folks are doing: refusing to assimilate. But he didn't. He was not that ignorant as to expect people from a foreign country to bend over and backwards for him.


What is your point?!
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Old 05-07-2011, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
3,849 posts, read 3,172,228 times
Reputation: 1692
Quote:
Originally Posted by KickAssArmyChick View Post
100% TRUE.

I saw it with my own eyes a little over a week ago. Needless to say I wasn't shocked.....but I am very disappointed.

Especially after the folks who were being assisted by an Spanish speaking interpreter drove off in a BMW.
So, if someone has a decent income and can afford that BMW, they should know and use English? Do you stop to THINK at all?

1. Maybe they came with enough money to live on for a while, including enough to buy a decent car.

2. Maybe they were visitors and planned to go back to their native land.

3. Maybe the car belonged to their employer and they were in the office doing business related to their employment. (or their employer or a friend loaned them the car for the day)

Just because someone has problems speaking/understanding English does NOT automatically mean that they're stupid or that they're "trying to put one over" on anyone.
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Old 05-07-2011, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
3,849 posts, read 3,172,228 times
Reputation: 1692
Quote:
Originally Posted by KickAssArmyChick View Post
You are correct. I was born here...but lived abroad from the time I was 5 until 18...and I learned the language spoken in the country I lived in.

Nobody ever catered to Americans, Italians, Russians where I lived. They always used to say "Learn my language or don't come here".

I also lived in Quebec and guess what, learned some French - though I am not as fluent in it as I am in English and Portuguese.

I think it's funny you say you know immigrants pretty well. My dad is an immigrant...He didn't speak English upon arriving in the United States in late 60's. He learned the language though. He said he wanted to succeed and to become an American. He didn't expect anyone to learn his language. You see, he left his country to come to this country. He made the CHOICE to do so.

There are plenty of Portuguese speaking folks in New England. He could have easily done the exact same things the Spanish speaking folks are doing: refusing to assimilate. But he didn't. He was not that ignorant as to expect people from a foreign country to bend over and backwards for him.


What is your point?!
And you just made my earlier point with the bolded above - for a young child, just learning to speak at all, it is much easier to learn two languages than it is for an adult, growing up speaking one language, to learn a second language. My aunt grew up with both Polish and English; her mother came to this country as an adult and was just barely able to learn enough English to say "please" and "thank you". She could understand English when it was spoken in her presence, she just couldn't speak it and required my aunt or my cousin to interpret her replies.

I signed up for a French class in high school; couldn't hack it. By then it was just too late for me to ever be comfortable speaking in another language, as beautiful as the French language is. Were I to travel to a French speaking country, I might be able to get by with "s'il vous plaît et merci", but that's about the extent of it.
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