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Old 03-06-2011, 06:45 PM
 
3,948 posts, read 4,294,173 times
Reputation: 1277

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
I'm a white Jewish girl with a very goyische look so I can "pass" in lots of circles. I can also speak Spanish and Latinos, when they see me, are (mistakenly) confident that I can't understand them.

They're wrong.

I find that when Latinos speak to each other in Spanish in a work environment (i.e. 2 employees of Company A speaking to each other in Spanish in full view/earshot of other employees/customers), it is usually because they are having a conversation that would be completely inappropriate in English. I've overheard them referring to customers using racial slurs, insulting them, insulting other coworkers, making homophobic/sexist remarks, etc. because they think nobody can understand what they're saying.

I report this sort of behavior sometimes...when it's egregious...but if I reported every inappropriate conversation in Spanish that I overhear in public around here, I would not have enough time to do all the other things I need to do.
Same here. It's funny speaking to them in Spanish once they are finished with their conversation.
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Old 03-06-2011, 06:47 PM
 
Location: Texas
5,872 posts, read 8,070,145 times
Reputation: 2971
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arus View Post
I have read the law and the EEOC. None of it supports that its an act of discrimination if it applies across ALL people who speak ANY language.

If its not targeting a specific group of people, its not discrimination.

Sear's policy is applying to all employees (spanish speaking, japanese speaking, russian speaking, whatever).


BTW, Sear's is not saying that their employees can't speak to customers in the language they understand. They are just not allowing their employees SPEAK different languages to each other, in the ear shot or in front of customers if it has nothing to do with business.

Back room, stock, repair area, outside of customer's ear shot, they can speak whatever language they want.

This is the policy that many businesses adopt.


Really? You read it? I don't think so. The decision from the court reads:

Quote:
The rule enforced by the company, banning the speaking of languages other than English at all times in the workplace including lunch and other breaks discriminated against mostly Mexican-American bilingual employees hired, ironically, for their ability to speak Spanish. The Court held that the policy resulted in discrimination against workers based on their national origin in violation of Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
The law says unless it's IMPERATIVE to business necessity, a blanket English only rule is discriminative.

EEOC REACHES LANDMARK 'ENGLISH-ONLY' SETTLEMENT; CHICAGO MANUFACTURER TO PAY OVER $190,000 TO HISPANIC WORKERS

Please read again, so that you'll have the correct information next time.
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Old 03-06-2011, 06:49 PM
 
3,948 posts, read 4,294,173 times
Reputation: 1277
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsMcQ LV View Post
How rude! Of BOTH of you. For one thing, you don't know if that woman lives in this country or is a visitor from another country. I don't speak French, but I'm pretty sure if I was visiting Paris, neither the store clerks nor any other person in the store would tell me to leave the country. And I surely wouldn't behave that way myself in this country.
LOL You're naive with this one. Have you ever been to France? LOL They don't really take the time to go out of their way to explain things to you if you don't speak French. That's my experience, but I didn't blame them. They didn't speak English and they didn't have time to go around trying to translate stuff for me or anyone else. There were no English translations on the menus or stuff like that. This was back in early 2000's. Here in the U.S., we have gone above and beyond to make our Spanish-speaking (non-English understanding or speaking) buddies comfortable and able to live and work here. I speak Spanish pretty well, but boy is it annoying seeing how they just get by without having to learn English.
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Old 03-06-2011, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,612 posts, read 12,814,128 times
Reputation: 3132
Quote:
Originally Posted by txgolfer130 View Post
Really? You read it? I don't think so. The decision from the court reads:



The law says unless it's IMPERATIVE to business necessity, a blanket English only rule is discriminative.

EEOC REACHES LANDMARK 'ENGLISH-ONLY' SETTLEMENT; CHICAGO MANUFACTURER TO PAY OVER $190,000 TO HISPANIC WORKERS

Please read again, so that you'll have the correct information next time.
Hmm.....it also clearly says while on breaks and lunch (ie - while on personal time) - that's NOT "in the workplace during the course of business"
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Old 03-06-2011, 07:24 PM
 
10,449 posts, read 12,427,587 times
Reputation: 12596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevar242 View Post
This is AMERICA we speak English here.
SEARS just got all my business
There's a whole community of American-born, American-raised, natives that would tell you otherwise. That's the community of Deaf Americans whose native language is American Sign Language. I wonder--are those people less American because they use a language other than English to communicate and get by day-to-day? English and ASL are separate languages by the way. ASL doesn't have a written form and borrows English words to write, but when signed, it has its own grammar and syntax and is otherwise completely unintelligible to a speaker of English. There are people who are fourth- or fifth-generation Deaf, whose parents and grandparents and great grandparents used and passed down ASL. Are these people less American in your eyes just because they don't speak English? Is being an English speaker really the only way to be American?

Then there are the English speakers of the U.K., of Australia, of New Zealand, of Canada, of India, of various Scandinavian countries, and other countries, who speak English as well as or better than you or me, that hardly consider themselves American. So is it really fair to equate speaking English with being American?
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Old 03-06-2011, 07:30 PM
 
10,449 posts, read 12,427,587 times
Reputation: 12596
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoEdible View Post
Your maids are "white" and they don't speak English? Wtf? What do you mean "white?" I think you are making this up to try to support what you are saying and to try to prove a point against the other poster. Especially with your "I'm sure they could teach you a few things," comment.
There are plenty of white people in the U.S. who don't speak English. I have Russian and Ukrainian friends who know about five words of English and otherwise speak Russian and Ukrainian. Some of them have been living in the U.S. as long as ten years. Are they white? Yes. Do they speak English? No. Are some of them maids or in other service positions? Yes. It is indeed possible for white people to be working class, living in the U.S., white, and to be speakers of a language other than English. I don't necessarily advocate living in the U.S. or any country that long without learning the language, but it does happen and is indeed possible.
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Old 03-06-2011, 07:36 PM
 
3,484 posts, read 2,863,543 times
Reputation: 2354
Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
There's a whole community of American-born, American-raised, natives that would tell you otherwise. That's the community of Deaf Americans whose native language is American Sign Language. I wonder--are those people less American because they use a language other than English to communicate and get by day-to-day? English and ASL are separate languages by the way. ASL doesn't have a written form and borrows English words to write, but when signed, it has its own grammar and syntax and is otherwise completely unintelligible to a speaker of English. There are people who are fourth- or fifth-generation Deaf, whose parents and grandparents and great grandparents used and passed down ASL. Are these people less American in your eyes just because they don't speak English? Is being an English speaker really the only way to be American?

Then there are the English speakers of the U.K., of Australia, of New Zealand, of Canada, of India, of various Scandinavian countries, and other countries, who speak English as well as or better than you or me, that hardly consider themselves American. So is it really fair to equate speaking English with being American?
Deaf people have no choice but to use ASL because many are fundamentally simply physically incapable of speaking English. The ability to use spoken language is lost or extremely difficult if you are deafened at an early age. That's an entirely different matter than someone coming to the United States to live here permanently who is capable of learning English and simply refuses.

America has always been an English speaking country. Our very constitution was written in the language. Our founding fathers spoke, wrote and thought primarily in English. We don't ask immigrants to change their religion or their nationality or their reasonable customs. Asking them to be fluent in the dominant language so they can be full participants in our democracy and public life is hardly a ridiculous demand.

People who refuse to comply should not come here. They are demanding a fundamental change to our society they have no right to make.

I respect the Deaf. They use ASL because they must. I refuse to respect let alone accommodate the monolingual immigrant. The two are completely different.
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Old 03-06-2011, 07:53 PM
 
3,948 posts, read 4,294,173 times
Reputation: 1277
Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
There are plenty of white people in the U.S. who don't speak English. I have Russian and Ukrainian friends who know about five words of English and otherwise speak Russian and Ukrainian. Some of them have been living in the U.S. as long as ten years. Are they white? Yes. Do they speak English? No. Are some of them maids or in other service positions? Yes. It is indeed possible for white people to be working class, living in the U.S., white, and to be speakers of a language other than English. I don't necessarily advocate living in the U.S. or any country that long without learning the language, but it does happen and is indeed possible.
I know this, but I really don't believe this person. We don't call Russians "white" usually. That's why I feel like they are far-fetching this story to try to support what they are saying. We just say "Russian" or "Eastern-European" or something. Or Polish. "White" here is "White." Like a "White American." That's like for the longest time I couldn't refer to Italians are White. They were always "Italians" to me. Or Greeks. They are Greek. But, that's just my opinion on nomenclature.

Oh, it's funny you said Russian because I had actually typed in my first response to the tkgolfer dude or whatever was, "What are they Russian or something?" But, I didn't want to make it seem like I thought no Russians speak English or something because I know many that speak really good English.
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Old 03-06-2011, 08:00 PM
 
Location: In a house
13,250 posts, read 42,671,743 times
Reputation: 20198
Though I'm not fluent, I can stumble my way around Spanish fairly well. I took formal classes for it in High School, but most of the conversational Spanish I learned, came from Latinos I worked with. I concluded, at that point, a few things about my own comfort zone:

1. If they understood me, speaking in English, then this was good.
2. If they could respond, in English, then this was good.
3. If they got stuck on words and had to ask me in Spanish for the English, this was even better.
4. If I understood their Spanish when they asked for translation, even more better.
5. If they were talking amongst themselves, just in general - giving each other instruction on their assigned tasks, working well together, then I was fine with them speaking Spanish and would even sometimes interrupt them and ask them to translate a word or a phrase.
6. If they were making "comments" about either the other employees, or the customers, I would inform them that they would need to conduct the rest of their conversations that shift in English. If it's inappropriate enough that they have to "hide" what they're saying by speaking a different language, then that language needs to stop being avialable to them to use. I don't care if it's Spanish or Urdu, Korean or Cockney Rhyming Language, ASL or Lebonese. Language should not be used to hide what someone is saying about people in public, in the workplace, by employees.

If they understand the customers, and can be understood by the customers when they speak together, then that's fine by me. If the customer speaks Spanish and I miss a word or two, I would be thankful to those who DO understand it fluently, to give me a hand. Just like I'd give them a hand with English if needed.

It's only when they do it blatantly, intentionally to obscure a conversation, or if they are incapable of speaking AND understanding at least a passing amount of English, that I get annoyed.
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Old 03-06-2011, 08:05 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,232 posts, read 46,547,769 times
Reputation: 11081
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arus View Post
I have read the law and the EEOC. None of it supports that its an act of discrimination if it applies across ALL people who speak ANY language.

If its not targeting a specific group of people, its not discrimination.

Sear's policy is applying to all employees (spanish speaking, japanese speaking, russian speaking, whatever).


BTW, Sear's is not saying that their employees can't speak to customers in the language they understand. They are just not allowing their employees SPEAK different languages to each other, in the ear shot or in front of customers if it has nothing to do with business.

Back room, stock, repair area, outside of customer's ear shot, they can speak whatever language they want.

This is the policy that many businesses adopt.
If they're speaking TO the customer, and English is the language the customer uses, then sure, they should speak English. But if they are not speaking to the customer, there's no need to speak English. I've ordered Chinese food and not understood a single word said until the lady said "Have a nice day."

And you know, if they're speaking ABOUT a customer, then it's really none of anyone else's business. Guess what? We talk about you too, we just do it behind your backs.
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