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Old 03-04-2011, 09:37 AM
 
22,770 posts, read 25,313,193 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mb1547 View Post
Rasmussen consistently shows conservative bias in their polling numbers compared to other firms. If Rasmussen shows numbers like this, Scott Walker has lost the war in Wisconsin.


Another interesting tidbit: 58% of people with children in public schools think teachers unions are a good thing.


Wisconsin Poll: Support for Budget Cutting, Not for Weakening Collective Bargaining Rights - Rasmussen Reports™


I think they call that 'Tyranny of the majority'
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Old 03-04-2011, 09:53 AM
 
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Originally Posted by shorebaby View Post
Read the link and get back to us, your represetation of what was said is, of course, completely wrong. Please let us know what Christie's position on collective bargaining was before Wisconsin.
I know how Christie stands on collective bargaining--he's trying to take health care negotiations out bargaining and deal with it through legislation, but NOW he's making sure he makes statements about how much he loves it. That's a direct response to polling--trying to move his stand away from gutting bargaining--while he's still pushing the legislation.
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Old 03-04-2011, 09:56 AM
 
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Originally Posted by le roi View Post
I think they call that 'Tyranny of the majority'
You can't have it both ways. Lots of you in the tea party are using last fall's elections as a mandate for every far right proposal you want to put out there--it's a "the voters are behind us!" mentality. When it turns out that the voters ARE NOT behind you, you start ranting about mob rule. Sorry--doesn't fly.
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Old 03-04-2011, 09:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mb1547 View Post
I know how Christie stands on collective bargaining--he's trying to take health care negotiations out bargaining and deal with it through legislation, but NOW he's making sure he makes statements about how much he loves it. That's a direct response to polling--trying to move his stand away from gutting bargaining--while he's still pushing the legislation.
You have no clue what you speak of. I am in the very union Christie is making changes to. He is not and never was doing anything with CB. I would support him even if he was.
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Old 03-04-2011, 10:00 AM
 
16,553 posts, read 11,120,900 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mb1547 View Post
You can't have it both ways. Lots of you in the tea party are using last fall's elections as a mandate for every far right proposal you want to put out there--it's a "the voters are behind us!" mentality. When it turns out that the voters ARE NOT behind you, you start ranting about mob rule. Sorry--doesn't fly.
And what exactly did the left and Obama do when he was elected? Ram through every far far left agenda they could REGARDLESS of what the people wwanted. You sure have a short memory span, or is it just plain ole partisanship? I think it's the latter to be honest.
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Old 03-04-2011, 10:03 AM
 
22,770 posts, read 25,313,193 times
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Originally Posted by mb1547 View Post
You can't have it both ways. Lots of you in the tea party

<snip>
When I argue against the Bush administration's policies on this forum, I'm accused of being a liberal who wants to regulate corporations to death.

When I argue against the Obama administration's policies, I'm accused of being a heartless libertarian globalist.

When I argue for middle class taxpayers' interests, I'm accused of being a tea partier.

When I argue for stronger environmental regulations, I'm accused of being a conspiratorial tree hugger.

When I argue for higher taxes on the super-rich, I'm accused of class warfare.

I guess that's just American identity politics. Obfuscate the issues, and focus on making your fellow citizens look like the enemy.
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Old 03-04-2011, 10:06 AM
 
16,553 posts, read 11,120,900 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mb1547 View Post
You can't have it both ways. Lots of you in the tea party are using last fall's elections as a mandate for every far right proposal you want to put out there--it's a "the voters are behind us!" mentality. When it turns out that the voters ARE NOT behind you, you start ranting about mob rule. Sorry--doesn't fly.
Quote:
American voters are split as 46 percent say it would be a good thing and 44 percent say it would be a bad thing if the U.S. government shut down because of disagreement in Washington over federal spending, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released today.

Looking at the controversy over pay for government workers, 35 percent say the pay is "about right," while 15 percent say it is too little and 42 percent say it is too much.

To reduce state budget deficits, collective bargaining for public employees should be limited, 45 percent of American voters tell the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University poll, while 42 percent oppose limits on collective bargaining. But voters say 63 - 31 percent that government workers should pay more for benefits and retirement programs.

Efforts by governors to limit collective bargaining rights are motivated by a desire to reduce government costs rather than to weaken unions, voters say 47 - 41 percent.

National (US) Poll * March 2, 2011 * American Voters Split On Gove - Quinnipiac University – Hamden, Connecticut
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Old 03-04-2011, 10:08 AM
 
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Originally Posted by le roi View Post
When I argue against the Bush administration's policies on this forum, I'm accused of being a liberal who wants to regulate corporations to death.

When I argue against the Obama administration's policies, I'm accused of being a globalist neocon.

When I argue for middle class taxpayers' interests, I'm accused of being a tea partier.

When I argue for higher taxes on the super-rich, I'm accused of class warfare.

I guess that's just American identity politics. Obfuscate the issues, and focus on making your fellow citizens look like the enemy.
Then I guess we're in the same club, because I'm a moderate R who gets called a commie or a liberal here all the time. Sorry if I lumped you in with the crowd. I still disagree with you though--there's nothing wrong with voters speaking out if they feel their government is doing something wrong.
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Old 03-04-2011, 10:12 AM
 
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Originally Posted by BucsLose View Post
Sure but how often is there really any real two way bargaining? Seems to me unions are no longer even functioning as their initial purpose. They have destroyed that and now demand alot of non sense. They have been abusing their "right" and taken advantage of the tax payers. We get no say in this bargaining and we should because it is our money. We should know every single thing they ask for and have a say on if we approve.
Do you go to your local school board meetings, or city council meetings, etc. and vote for every single budget item they agree to? This is no different.
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Old 03-04-2011, 10:13 AM
 
10,115 posts, read 6,767,786 times
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Originally Posted by SourD View Post
You have no clue what you speak of. I am in the very union Christie is making changes to. He is not and never was doing anything with CB. I would support him even if he was.
That's fine if you support him, but the legislation he's proposing would take health care out of collective bargaining, when it's always been negotiated in the past. It's up to the voters of NJ to decide if that's a good or bad thing.

And on the poll you listed--it's a push poll. It ties cutting state deficits to cutting collective bargaining rights--that's comparing apples to oranges--look at the question. Even then with a conservative push poll, it came out pretty even. Sorry, but that doesn't help your case. Rasmussen is one of the most conservatively biased polling firms out there--if they came up with the data they have listed here of Wisconsin likely voters, the numbers are probably higher in support of collective bargaining.
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