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Old 03-04-2011, 06:53 PM
 
3,513 posts, read 3,114,914 times
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who wouldve thought 2012 would come down to the koch brothers vs. george soros.

i have never been more convinced that voting is pointless and that we have no impact, none.
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Old 03-04-2011, 06:56 PM
 
3,911 posts, read 4,737,373 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tropolis View Post
i have never been more convinced then ever that voting is pointless and that we have no impact, none.
I think that puts you in the majority.
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Old 03-04-2011, 07:00 PM
 
5,915 posts, read 4,015,043 times
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Originally Posted by Steady Hand Marksman View Post
wouldnt this make more cents to combine the Democrats and Republicans into 1 giant party and when issues and debates come up they can all vote at once and the majority vote wins?

i seriously have been debating this for sometime and think it would honestly cut out all the BS invovled and more things may happen and the government would run smoother.

thoughts/opinions?
That would definitely make more cents and possibly dollars.
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Old 03-04-2011, 07:21 PM
 
Location: Houston area, for now
948 posts, read 1,203,072 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tropolis View Post
i have never been more convinced that voting is pointless and that we have no impact, none.
I will have to disagree and attempt to convince you otherwise. Voting is the most American thing you can do. The founders built this country on the idea that Americans take the responsibility to rule themselves. They knew that would be hard and at times need to be defended. The core of the Declaration of independence is the word independence.
Sometimes my ideas and desires are not in the majority sometimes they are but no one has the right to decide who or what I vote on for me.
I don't care if you are far right Conservative or far left Liberal, When you chose not to vote you are allowing someone else to make decisions for you.
Back a few years ago some men got together John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, Edward Rutledge, Benjamin Franklin, William Whipple, just to name a few. You may have heard their names before.
These men came up with an absurd idea that a country should be ruled by its citizens and not it's citizens ruled by their country. We must participate in order to keep that idea alive.
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Old 03-04-2011, 07:26 PM
 
3,911 posts, read 4,737,373 times
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Originally Posted by Dewmik View Post
I will have to disagree and attempt to convince you otherwise. Voting is the most American thing you can do. The founders built this country on the idea that Americans take the responsibility to rule themselves. They knew that would be hard and at times need to be defended. The core of the Declaration of independence is the word independence.
Sometimes my ideas and desires are not in the majority sometimes they are but no one has the right to decide who or what I vote on for me.
I don't care if you are far right Conservative or far left Liberal, When you chose not to vote you are allowing someone else to make decisions for you.
Back a few years ago some men got together John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, Edward Rutledge, Benjamin Franklin, William Whipple, just to name a few. You may have heard their names before.
These men came up with an absurd idea that a country should be ruled by its citizens and not it's citizens ruled by their country. We must participate in order to keep that idea alive.
But when half of the population says **** it, it doesn't matter which way I vote, doesn't that say something is extremely flawed with our "democracy"?
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Old 03-04-2011, 07:52 PM
 
11,961 posts, read 12,441,862 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steady Hand Marksman View Post
wouldnt this make more cents to combine the Democrats and Republicans into 1 giant party and when issues and debates come up they can all vote at once and the majority vote wins?

i seriously have been debating this for sometime and think it would honestly cut out all the BS invovled and more things may happen and the government would run smoother.

thoughts/opinions?
We in many ways already have been one party if you consider how many dems are former repubs. How many 'others' (indies) are former repubs.? Half a dozen and counting.

I have no party. I've always been voting for the most qualified and the best plan ahead. I think it best we abolish parties because loyalty should be to your country, not to your party.
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Old 03-04-2011, 07:59 PM
 
11,961 posts, read 12,441,862 times
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Originally Posted by tropolis View Post
the parties are the same for the most part already.

i still laugh at the people who say electing a dem or a rep will change anything.
I think they have the appearance of being the same because each side has conceded to the merits of argument of the other side in some measure. In other words there are some things about republicans that democrats have philosophically adopted as a shared truth. That's not an awful thing. We all had to agree that slavery was a very bad idea once upon a time.

Looking around in some of these threads I see we still have some stragglers left behind in radical camps.
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Old 03-04-2011, 08:09 PM
 
11,961 posts, read 12,441,862 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tropolis View Post
who wouldve thought 2012 would come down to the koch brothers vs. george soros.

i have never been more convinced that voting is pointless and that we have no impact, none.
Special interest influence as we know it today needs to be extinct. Cut the money cord entirely. If they want to talk to my congress(wo)man they can post their petitions and proposals on the internet like blog format without concealed identities. Transparency achieved.

No doubt they will hire a herd of lawyers and mass marketing psychos playing mind games to win grace and favor from joe public, retool their plate of twinkies, but at least we'd get a first hand view of an ice rink for an eskimo before it winds up in an omnibus bill.
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Old 03-04-2011, 08:18 PM
 
3 posts, read 1,864 times
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The constitution, and parties, and the seperation of powers: answers this riddle. The founders seperated powers into 3 subsets ( judicial, legislative, and executive ) so each faction could check the others. This would help weed out influence and sole dominance. Two commpeting parties is better than one, at least. One party systems do not go well typically. I fell true representative elections would be best. If Dem gets 38 % they get 38% of the seats, if republicans get 38% they assume 38% of the seats. if indipendents, the green party, each recieve half the remaining percent they would assume that percentage. This sounds great but also poses problems, like every thing else. However 2 parties, we have actually 5 parties you just dont hear of the others. Happy debating. the answer is seperation of powers to check competing factions.
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Old 03-04-2011, 09:14 PM
 
Location: Houston area, for now
948 posts, read 1,203,072 times
Reputation: 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevergoingback View Post
But when half of the population says **** it, it doesn't matter which way I vote, doesn't that say something is extremely flawed with our "democracy"?
Yes it dose so my question to you is, why be counted as the flawed
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