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Old 03-06-2011, 07:11 PM
 
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This Holocaust survivor said the Nazi concentration camp killers said her punishment was for "Jesus".


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOMS-GcDU70


Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthGAbound12 View Post
You can take Hitler off that list. He was a member of the flock. Don't want to claim him? That's too bad but he was a Catholic.
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Old 03-06-2011, 07:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wade52 View Post
1. Hitler was a Catholic and was responsible for many more than 11 million deaths.

"Hitler considered himself a Catholic until the day he died. In 1941 he told Gerhard Engel, one of his generals: "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so." In fact, Hitler was never excommunicated from the Catholic Church, and Mein Kampf was not placed on the Church's Index of Forbidden Books.
As for atheism, Hitler specifically opposed it in a 1933 speech in Berlin: "We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out."

Hitler's Christianity

2. Stalin was an alum of the Russian Orthodox seminary in Georgia.

"At ten, he began attending church school where the Georgian children were forced to speak Russian. By the age of twelve, two horse-drawn carriage accidents left his left arm permanently damaged. At sixteen, he received a scholarship to a Georgian Orthodox seminary, where he rebelled against the imperialist and religious order. Though he performed well there, he was expelled in 1899 after missing his final exams. The seminary's records suggest he was unable to pay his tuition fees."

Joseph Stalin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

3. Mao - please provide your evidence.

4. Pol Pot - please provide supporting evidence.
A missing piece is that these 4 never killed because of their religion or lack of it - killing was to maintain power and purely politically motivated. You would be killed if you were a threat - and even if you were an atheist. In religious wars, you are killed BECAUSE you have a different religion - because, usually some lord told you to. Some religious people overlook this hole in their logic and supposedly helps them reclaim their moral high perch.

Last edited by calmdude; 03-06-2011 at 07:49 PM..
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Old 03-07-2011, 01:02 AM
 
Location: 30-40°N 90-100°W
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artsyguy View Post
This Holocaust survivor said the Nazi concentration camp killers said her punishment was for "Jesus".
I don't deny there were Christian Nazis. A man named Hans Kerrl was a leading figure for reconciling Christianity and Nazism as well as trying to use religion to bolster the regime.

Still Nazi ideas were more based in racialism and biologic notions than religious ones. Hence in Poland and the Netherlands Catholics of Jewish descent were killed. Also Romany/Gypsies were killed and, although they retained some unique practices, they were generally Christian I believe. The Nazi euthanasia program was decidedly against most forms of Christianity and had to be abandoned when Christian opposition grew too strong. (That Christians did not object as much to anti-Jewish violence is indeed unpleasant, but not the same as making it a Christian idea)
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Old 03-07-2011, 03:49 AM
 
Location: Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
I don't deny there were Christian Nazis. A man named Hans Kerrl was a leading figure for reconciling Christianity and Nazism as well as trying to use religion to bolster the regime.

Still Nazi ideas were more based in racialism and biologic notions than religious ones. Hence in Poland and the Netherlands Catholics of Jewish descent were killed. Also Romany/Gypsies were killed and, although they retained some unique practices, they were generally Christian I believe. The Nazi euthanasia program was decidedly against most forms of Christianity and had to be abandoned when Christian opposition grew too strong. (That Christians did not object as much to anti-Jewish violence is indeed unpleasant, but not the same as making it a Christian idea)

Remember to post this in support of non-religious who are condemned for killing and being atheist or non-religious, etc.
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Old 03-07-2011, 06:03 AM
 
Location: 30-40°N 90-100°W
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Although I've disagreed vociferously with atheists at C-D I don't deny that many of them are good or even admirable people and that although people like Mao or Hoxha really were atheists they aren't representative of atheists.

There are a few atheists in my lifetime I've liked quite well. Among more notable atheists I find/found pleasing or admirable in some way there are the following

Douglas Adams - Did much to bring a smile to my face. Although, maybe by accident or old habit, his writing tended to strike me as more agnostic than atheistic. In that characters who think they've figured it all out through science are also at times wrong in his works.

Isaac Asimov
- Possibly my favorite author. Not so much a fan of his politics or personality though.

Jodie Foster - Fine actress, smart woman, intriguing, etc.

Stephen Hawking - Good humor, great at science popularization, and interesting survival story. Not wild about all elements of his personal life though.

Katharine Hepburn
- Although possibly she was agnostic or agnostic-atheist. (I think agnostic-atheist is like "I don't believe in God, but what do I know?" or something)

Hugh Laurie - Writer, actor, and funny guy. Don't know I admire as such, but he's kind of neat.

Harriet McBryde Johnson - Disability and anti-euthanasia activist. She was also one of the few self-described "liberal Democrats" I admire.

Linus Pauling - Atheist U/U. Did a fair amount of good work.

Jonas Salk - Maybe more of a humanist than atheist.

George Santayana - I find much of what he said wise and admirable. Don't know much of his personal life.

Julia Sweeney - Probably the only "activist atheist" I like as what I saw she is fairly thoughtful and not mean-spirited about it. (Possibly she's become more strident in the last few years though as I've not kept up)

Emma Thompson - She's neat and outspoken in a way I find funny.

Wil Wheaton - He's occasionally annoying, but I like his ability to laugh at himself and his "legacy" as Ensign Crusher.

(Living are in bold, dead are in italics and I hope I didn't mess any up on that)
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Old 03-07-2011, 06:46 AM
 
Location: USA - midwest
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Lightbulb A few more iconic atheists/agnostics...

Mark Twain

Thomas Edison

Carl Sagan

Albert Einstein Einstein Quotes on Atheism & Freethought: Was Einstein an Atheist, Freethinker? Albert Einstein Denied Traditional Gods, But is that Atheism?

And some who may or may not have been, but of necessity had to conceal their lack of belief...

Abe Lincoln Positive Atheism's Big List of Abraham Lincoln Quotations

Thomas Jefferson Great Minds: Atheist Quotes
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Old 03-07-2011, 06:47 AM
 
Location: North America
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Holy CRAP!!!!!

Am I ever worried...not.
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Old 03-07-2011, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
I don't deny there were Christian Nazis. A man named Hans Kerrl was a leading figure for reconciling Christianity and Nazism as well as trying to use religion to bolster the regime.

Still Nazi ideas were more based in racialism and biologic notions than religious ones.
It doesn't matter if they practiced the pillars of Christianity. Most Christians claim they do, but in reality they are utter failure at it. The fact they professed Christianity, had full support of the catholic church, is enough to bring out the reality that religions have been used and abused for political "accomplishments". No?

To promote a unified Christianity (their vision, of course, like virtually every sect of any religion, or most religions as a whole profess) was one of the things Nazis had in their idea of socialization.
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