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Old 03-05-2011, 03:15 PM
 
3,756 posts, read 9,530,916 times
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In some Unions you can be Management and still pay your dues. This is a safety measure that in case you screw up (and most do) you can return back to the rank and file.
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Old 03-05-2011, 03:19 PM
 
41,815 posts, read 50,920,524 times
Reputation: 17863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tightwad View Post
public employees' unions don't get a single red cent from taxpayers.
Untrue, I've come across one example. Union controlled insurance companies providing the health insurance the same union is demanding in their contract.


Quote:
Teacher Benefits in Wisconsin and Michigan [Mackinac Center]

Also, in both states, teachers unions run their own health insurance companies — the Michigan Education Special Services Association was created in 1960 and the Wisconsin Education Association Trust in 1970. An estimated 64 percent of Wisconsin school districts buy WEA Trust coverage, and about 80 percent of Michigan districts get the insurance with a union label. Both unions relentlessly pressure local school boards to buy insurance from their subsidiaries — MESSA actually brags about how many districts suffered teacher strikes over whether to purchase its costly coverage (such strikes are now illegal in Michigan).
That's a conflict of interest and taxpayer funds being directly spent on the union when the same union that is demanding a product is also the selling it, wouldn't you agree?


FYI the average family plan in Wisconsin districts comes out to $20K per year.
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Old 03-05-2011, 03:42 PM
 
41,815 posts, read 50,920,524 times
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LOL, here's from the history page of the union controlled insurance compnay:
Quote:
https://www.messa.org/MESSA/public/A...SAHistory.aspx

School boards didn’t willingly roll over as school employees fought for respect and the compensation packages they deserved, however. Working together, tough MEA UniServ negotiators and local association leaders developed winning bargaining strategies and stood firm. School employees hit the picket line if needed. The tide slowly turned. School employees were winning the respect of school boards and the public.


Collective bargaining, tough negotiators and the willingness of school employees to go out on strike for MESSA benefits in the 1970s led to rapid growth at MESSA, growth which continues today.
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Old 03-05-2011, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Flippin AR
5,513 posts, read 5,230,375 times
Reputation: 6242
It doesn't matter that the actual union is not financed by taxpayers. The problem is that the Public Union has negotiated wages and benefits and working hours far better than those of the private sector workers whose taxes pay that compensation.

Why has this happened? Because the very idea of public unions is flawed. Unions arose so that workers could negotiate with business owners for a share of the business revenues. The total was limited by what the business brought in, minus expenses, and the business owner and union fought over the leftovers for an equitable distribution between capitalist/entrepreneur and worker (this has been skewed a bit with the Corporation and the Robber-Baron CEO, but that's the idea).

In a Public Union, however, the Government has taxing authority, and both the Public Union and those they are negotiating against, Government Administrators, are ON THE SAME SIDE. Consequently, the Government Officials are more than happy to award generous wages, benefits, working hours and perks, because their own salaries and benefits will reflect how well lower-level government workers are compensated. NOBODY in the negotiation represent the taxpayer--who must pay the bill, no matter how generous, and no matter how many local taxpayers are forced out of their paid-for homes by obscene property taxes.

There should never have been public unions; they are not needed and should be illlegal, as they are in specific cases. Now that the inevitable results have played out in the real world, resulting in debts for the taxpayer that simply exceed what they are able to pay and retain the homes they paid for already, we must deal with the problem.

Public workers should NOT be compensated at levels far beyond the private sector workers who pay their salaries. Those who would argue that public workers pay taxes too, forget that they are being given so much excess money that they still are far ahead of the game after accounting for the taxes.

What excess money to private workers get to pay the bankrupting taxes caused by over-generous compensation of those who often work only 20 or 25 years to get full retirement?
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Old 03-05-2011, 04:01 PM
 
17,390 posts, read 11,938,010 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ibarrio View Post
Membership was/is not forced for the Teacher's Union in California. I know this to be fact! How about your experience? Or are you going by hearsay? Did you read it in an email forward? See it on the interwebs? Or do you know from real life experience?
That's one state. What about the others?
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Old 03-05-2011, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Dublin, CA
3,807 posts, read 4,265,527 times
Reputation: 3984
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
I'm going by experience. I have been in a union twice in my life.
Care to cite your b.s.?
No, you are a liar. I live in California and belong to a "union." I DO NOT have too. I can opt out, if I chose. Therefore, you BS is just that; BS. You are wrond.
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Old 03-05-2011, 04:09 PM
 
41,815 posts, read 50,920,524 times
Reputation: 17863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil306 View Post
No, you are a liar. I live in California and belong to a "union." I DO NOT have too. I can opt out, if I chose. Therefore, you BS is just that; BS. You are wrond.
Do you know how many people have chosen to opt out?
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Old 03-05-2011, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Planet Eaarth
8,954 posts, read 20,642,392 times
Reputation: 7193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill61 View Post
Awesome post and excellent point. But I sure hope you're prepared for the beating you're about to take.
I'm old and tough so no worries, mate. No worries at all........
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Old 03-05-2011, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Surprise, Az
3,502 posts, read 9,590,420 times
Reputation: 1871
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Do you know how many people have chosen to opt out?
Actually yes. I was surprised to hear so (I was 24-25 so a bit naive).

FYI, they still get the same contracts and benefits negotiated by the unions. And I didn't see these people trying to give back any of the perks.
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Old 03-05-2011, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Surprise, Az
3,502 posts, read 9,590,420 times
Reputation: 1871
Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
That's one state. What about the others?
I can't and won't speak for others. But as you can see/read, some people in this thread have no problem doing so. Because all Unions across all the states are the same, right?
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