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Old 03-06-2011, 12:12 PM
 
2,088 posts, read 2,193,108 times
Reputation: 1263

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kazoopilot View Post
Capitalism sucks. Period. I know that may sound shocking, but it's true -- at least of unregulated, laissez-faire "free market" capitalism. It screws the poor and middle class out of a decent living, while enriching the corporations that send our jobs overseas and making the fat cats even fatter. It is a disgusting, evil system based upon greed and avarice. It is based on the lust for more, more, MORE while stopping at nothing to feed that desire.

In a capitalist system, corporate execs will slash thousands of American jobs to add a few pennies to their annual bonuses. They will send skilled jobs to China and Cambodia, laying off American workers and forcing children to work in sweatshops for pennies per day. These soulless organizations will sell out American workers to save a pittance, reaping record profits while we grow more and more desperate. If people here are fortunate enough to keep their jobs, they'll see their wages slashed, pensions cut and benefits scaled back. When unions try to stand up for workers rights, the government moves in to bust the unions in the name of "saving money" (look at what's happening in Wisconsin). However, raising taxes on the rich and corporations is out of the question. The government gives corporate behemoths tax breaks and exemptions and even bailouts while cutting essential services like education and unemployment benefits. It is disgusting.

It's not just about jobs either. Take healthcare. A man works hard, goes to college, and gets a good job with health benefits. If he loses his "good job," he'll be out of luck, becoming one of the millions of uninsured Americans. At least in almost any other developed country, you don't have to worry about lacking health insurance because you lose your job. Also, what of all the people with pre-existing conditions - the private health insurance companies look for ways to deny them.

People keep talking about "high taxes" and how they don't want to pay taxes. I really don't get this. I'd rather pay higher taxes and get better services than save money on taxes and have to fight the corporate machine to get essential services like healthcare. I'd rather tax the living crap out of the rich and corporations to ensure everyone gets a free education, a living-wage job, a home, unlimited unemployment insurance and guaranteed access to free or very low-cost healthcare and prescription drugs.
Luckily very few people think like you.
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Old 03-06-2011, 12:12 PM
 
Location: 22 months till retirement and I can leave the hell hole of New Yakistan
23,430 posts, read 13,118,626 times
Reputation: 5919
Quote:
Originally Posted by kazoopilot View Post
I don't buy the conservative line that the government is the enemy. The corporations are the enemy. The government is (in theory) of the people, by the people and FOR the people. Today, it's more like "of the rich, by the rich and for the rich."

I think we should throw out the free market system, not try to manipulate it through boycotts.
the government is a corporation
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Old 03-06-2011, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
11,449 posts, read 13,959,727 times
Reputation: 6877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostonian123 View Post
Luckily very few people think like you.

America loves conformist, obedient robots.
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Old 03-06-2011, 12:15 PM
 
15,414 posts, read 8,739,092 times
Reputation: 13786
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthGAbound12 View Post
No they are "fleeing' this country so they don't have to put up with paying a minimum wage, a 40 hour work week, OSHA regulations, etc. They are "fleeing" this country so they can go to the other side of the globe and pay some peasant working in slave conditions half as much in one year as he'd have to pay an American in one week. Yet you make the corporations out to be some victims that are seeking asylum, when in reality they are greedy robber barons seeking to be slave drivers. Globalization is going to be the death of this country and yet people like you fiddle while Rome burns.
I'm sorry, I thought you were disagreeing with me. But you say OSHA regulation is why they are leaving. Isn't that proving my point?

As for me fiddling - nope, not me. I'm working hard at a job that isn't union, isn't minimum wage, and where my boss and I work out an arrangement to pay me what we both think is a fair wage. I believe the fiddler is the guy in the WH.
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Old 03-06-2011, 12:20 PM
 
2,088 posts, read 2,193,108 times
Reputation: 1263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Visvaldis View Post
America loves conformist, obedient robots.
Free market capitalism with minimal regulation and moderate corporate taxes has built the largest and one of the most productive economies the world has ever seen in just 235 years. As long we continue on the same path, the economy will grow and become even more productive. In 100 years, the OP will finally be able to get what he is wishing for (healthcare, education, and jobs for everyone) and it will be due to technological improvements not because of some regulation or tax.
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Old 03-06-2011, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Here
10,833 posts, read 11,609,405 times
Reputation: 5928
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthGAbound12 View Post
Like I said, globalization is destroying America.
You sure did...only after ranting on that companies were fleeing the country to "so they can go to the other side of the globe and pay some peasant working in slave conditions half as much in one year as he'd have to pay an American in one week" and also called them "greedy robber barons".

Its called survival. If you wanna make it, you adapt or your toast. While profit is definitely a motive, simply staying in business is the major motivation.
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Old 03-06-2011, 12:25 PM
 
Location: it depends
6,074 posts, read 5,149,234 times
Reputation: 5767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Visvaldis View Post
"I have had it with capitalism"

..... In America it is important to understand that capitalism is not to serve people, but that people are to serve capitalism,......The only value this nation has is how much each individual can greedily and selfishly accumulate for himself without any regard for anyone else......
Well, I know these concepts run pretty deep in you, Visvaldis, but they are just about the opposite of my experience.

I'm in a very competitive business, and the only path to sustainable success is to provide greater value to the customer than the competition. The more I can do for others, the more I prosper. The greedy and selfish and short-sighted tend to be shooting stars--what goes around comes around, and they flame out.

The grocer helps me feed my family. If he "greedily and selfishly" gouges me, I will go down the road to the next store. In fact, every product or service I buy comes from the best provider I can find. 300 million of my fellow Americans are also all looking for the best value for their dollar.

The glory of capitalism is that the only way to prosper is by being of value to the rest of society, which votes with their dollars. Understandably, capitalism is not popular with those who have nothing to offer the rest of us.

This is not meant to be a justification for white-collar crime, or kajillion dollar bonuses, or non-payment of income tax--just a description of capitalism as it applies to 99% of commerce in America.
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Old 03-06-2011, 12:28 PM
 
16,755 posts, read 19,003,427 times
Reputation: 6842
Quote:
Originally Posted by Visvaldis View Post
America loves conformist, obedient robots.
No Socialism loves that (actually they demand it) and by default... liberals
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Old 03-06-2011, 12:33 PM
 
10,167 posts, read 16,698,184 times
Reputation: 5697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Visvaldis View Post
"I have had it with capitalism"

But capitalism is America's religion. Everything must be sacrificed to capitalism. In America it is important to understand that capitalism is not to serve people, but that people are to serve capitalism, our religion.
Obedience and conformity are two ways to serve this religion.
Not true, Visaldis.

On the contrary, what is important to understand is that human-nature and an inherent love of freedom and independence is the essence of free-market capitalism. It couldn't be otherwise.

Obedience and conformity to serve this "religion"? Nope, it is the controlled market which requires what you describe. It stifles human initiative, it re-distibutes wealth created by the free market in the name of of some emotive, meaningless phrase like "economic justice." It conditions people to actually agree to the terms of their own enslavement and believe it to be in their best interest. DeToqueville saw it a century ahead of time (Democracy in America) and gulags and graveyards are full of those who experienced its natural extremes.

Quote:
Capitalism's most important lesson:
The only value this nation has is how much each individual can greedily and selfishly accumulate for himself without any regard for anyone else. America's corporations understand and utilize this lesson, but the average American does not.

Let me say right up front that I am not a Big Business conservative. I agree with what I loosely percieve as your general theme on that point. I object to corporate welfare and subsidies just as much as I do that given to those who leech off the taxpayers and have a sense of entitlement to other peoples money.

BUT? Hey, back up and look it up. Fact is, it is self-identified conservatives who give FAR more to charitable causes than do liberals. Those red state rednecks (especially in Texas/South and the rural Midwest and West) make that contributed by those in the liberal NE areas and on the left coast look like pikers by comparission.

Let me ask you a question. How much of your own income do you personally contribute to charitable causes? You talk about greed and accumlation of wealth? How much of your own do you give away? How do you make your living? Do you have kids, a family? Do you create any jobs for anyone?

If so, then you ought to know that supporting them is the most important and altruistic endevour that human beings can ever feel and do. Great things, moral things, are done by individual example motivated by what you dismiss as simple greed...especially with providing for ones own.

The opposite is someone taking it upon themselves to spend someone elses money and, further, for some crazy reason, presume themselves morally superior for doing so. Which is the essence of the controlled market.


P.S. You owe me another beer!

Last edited by TexasReb; 03-06-2011 at 01:00 PM..
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Old 03-06-2011, 12:42 PM
 
7,584 posts, read 4,058,573 times
Reputation: 1188
Quote:
Originally Posted by kazoopilot View Post
I don't buy the conservative line that the government is the enemy. The corporations are the enemy. The government is (in theory) of the people, by the people and FOR the people. Today, it's more like "of the rich, by the rich and for the rich."

I think we should throw out the free market system, not try to manipulate it through boycotts.
The government is for the people, only if the people will act within their best interests. Yet people are not going to do that, because that would need for Americans to take a firm stand and well thought out actions. Americans would rather take the whiny brat tactic and go whay to ma and pa.

Throwing out the free markets, throws out the peoples power card. I guess better that, than to take a firm stand, eh? People who want to throw out the free markets are people who want to sit on their backsides with their hands held out. They don't want to do anything about it, because that would require a bit of, effort, on their part. They are the couch potatoes who watch the news and go---wow, how did it ever get this bad? The people refuse to do anything about it, so---quit the complaining.

Better to lay claim the problem is where it isn't, than to do anything productive on the people's level to fix it.

The people of America have a power card and they refuse to use it. This failure to do or to recognize, it's on us. Not the other way around.

Stop buying, stop buying into it, stop the activities and watch the power unfold. Or...keep on trucking and watch the trucks across America come to a halt, because they can't afford the fuel to get products to market.

But that's okay---the government money printing presses will save us, right? Silly people, don't have the fortitude, to till the land, any more. They wait, for some one else to come along and do it for them---the peoples government. We build it strong, so we don't have to be.
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