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Old 03-08-2011, 10:46 PM
 
7,565 posts, read 4,042,388 times
Reputation: 1188

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajsmith365 View Post
I am truly not understanding your question. Please rephrase or clarify; unless this is rhetorical. Thank you.
It was more on the line of factious.
You said, "Fascist...oops, capitalist...society."
And I thought which one of those is where the government comes in and pays (rewards those) the big guys money when they have made mistakes. GM, Chrysler, not Ford, they didn't take it, but Chevy, the government came in and rescued them.

Only in America.

Oh, let's not forget fannie and freddy---

The mindset that situations like that promote is the, 'okay, where's mine', attitudes. Knocks the wind right out of those who are in the competition to make it to the top.
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Old 03-08-2011, 10:52 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
6,652 posts, read 7,131,466 times
Reputation: 2840
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajsmith365 View Post
In my post, I never said I had a problem with capitalism. Then, again, I don't have a problem with socialism, communism, or an autocratic gov't either, if done properly. It's not about methodology, it's about execution.

But, I will disagree with you in regards to a "free", without some form of oversight, you are begging for trouble. Capitalism without some oversight from government is like watching a sports game with no referees. I guarantee that you, during some time in your life, have used the words "that's not fair", "I/we got robbed", or "they cheated". If you did, then I know you can't honestly believe that both "free" and "capitalism" belong in the same sentence.
The problem with authoritarian rule (socialism, communism, an autocratic gov't, or fascism,) is in order have proper execution is it usually involves a lot of executions.

You may want to look back at some of my prior posts. http://www.city-data.com/forum/18191760-post408.html What I am calling for is the ultimate even playing field with a referee. What we have now is the ref playing in the game, that is a big part of the problem.
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Old 03-09-2011, 12:07 AM
 
8,814 posts, read 5,352,342 times
Reputation: 3685
Quote:
Originally Posted by kazoopilot View Post
I don't believe in any of that conspiracy theory stuff. It's ludicrous. I don't mean any offense by this, but I really think it sounds delusional.
Well, you are free to believe or not believe anything you want. But what I posted is well documented fact, not theory, and certainly not delusional. Is it delusional to claim that there is a Sun in the sky, and that it rises everyday? It would only be delusional to someone who lives in an underground cave and has never seen the sun.

Well, outside the cave, there is a Sun, it rises every day, and the Rothschild dynasty and their massive wealth is just as real, though doesn't make the grade for inclusion in the text books taught to the Kiddies. Ah, gotta love government run education.

The point is, there is apparently much you have to learn about the world you actually inhabit, as it is just a bit different from the one you've been taught to believe exists. And given that old saying that the mind is like a parachute ... it only works when it's open .... it is always wise never to dismiss out of hand things you unaware of, simply because you are unaware of them. That type of mentality just keeps you unaware.

Now, I suppose you feel similarly about the New World Order being an delusion also? Then you must ask yourself ... who is it that is really delusional? You ... or these guys:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ukepje-gcc&NR=1
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Old 03-09-2011, 12:36 AM
 
19,216 posts, read 12,491,472 times
Reputation: 2337
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post

The point is, there is apparently much you have to learn about the world you actually inhabit, as it is just a bit different from the one you've been taught to believe exists. And given that old saying that the mind is like a parachute ... it only works when it's open .... it is always wise never to dismiss out of hand things you unaware of, simply because you are unaware of them. That type of mentality just keeps you unaware.]
The problem with the unaware is that most of them are unaware that they are unaware.
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Old 03-09-2011, 01:45 AM
 
Location: Atlanta metro
5,645 posts, read 3,980,836 times
Reputation: 982
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post

You donít have to clarify the definition of a corporation when the point of the argument is pretty clear.
Huh? A corporation is not equal to a big business. There is obviously some overlap but the poster stated he does not like corporations. You going on and on about big businesses is veering off course. The poster specifically stated his problem with corporations is the lack of personal liability, to which I responded that innovation would decrease BECAUSE of the personal liability if only sole proprietorships and partnerships existed. That's the entire point. Big business is not the point.
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Old 03-09-2011, 01:47 AM
 
1,811 posts, read 928,930 times
Reputation: 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
You should perhaps familiarize yourself with history ... start off with the "Weimar Republic", and particularly the area of "hyperinflation".

And then, when a loaf of bread costs a $1,000 almost worthless Federal Reserve Notes .... tell us all about your 250 loaves of bread per year, and how tender those trucks are when grilled properly.
Yes, we were taught about that, and the wheelbarrows of money and people getting paid twice a day to minimize inflation.

Do you really think you are the only one who knows this, or that I didn't. I knew this before you were born.

Also, do you really think any of what you referred to amounts to spit? That 's one of the problems with libs. They are well able to spew facts, but haven't a clue what they really mean. They live in a world full of dots, but can't connect even two of them.

Get a clue. As I have said before, beg, borrow or steal one. Rent it, lease it, copy it or whatever, but GET A CLUE!!!!!!
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Old 03-09-2011, 02:07 AM
 
Location: Atlanta metro
5,645 posts, read 3,980,836 times
Reputation: 982
Quote:
Originally Posted by kazoopilot View Post
Andrea, I see your point, but I still disagree. First of all, I have no desire to be wealthy -- at least not with earthly riches. As long as I make enough to cover my modest expenses and save for a rainy day -- I'm fine. I don't want to be a fat cat.
Thank you for your thoughtful response.

But just b/c YOU don't desire to be wealthy does not mean that nobody else can. I desire to be wealthy so I can donate more to charities and spend some time volunteering. It would also be great if we could afford to move somewhere with a proper church (the ones here are far too liberal and do not stick with scripture, so we are kind of SOL and that really bothers me). With a baby on the way, obviously being wealthy would make it easier for me to spend time with the child if I didn't have to work. It's not just about greed. My problem is not with you, but with the fact that you think nobody should aspire to make some money for themselves and their heirs so they can live a nice life. Sure there are greedy folks, but it's painting with too broad a brush to say that capitalist society is by nature greedy and evil. Heck, I'm not gonna lie and say it wouldn't be nice to have a nice house (not big, though, then I have to clean it or hire a maid), car, maybe a small boat, and time to go on vacations and let our kid experience a wide variety of things. But I don't think I'm being greedy for wanting that, especially when I've worked hard for it (as has my husband, who is honestly one of the hardest working people I've ever met).

Quote:
Second of all, I do plan to expand my side business someday, but I think now is a bad time. Grant writing is based on helping nonprofits, which are struggling in this recession. Once the economy improves and I save more money, I'll consider it. Right now, my primary focus is paying off old debt and saving cash for the future.
Good for you. I mean no sarcasm there at all. Best of luck.

Quote:

As for corporations -- yes, abolish the structure, along with LLC, limited partnership, S-corp, any sort of limited liability business entity. I don't care if a corporation has one shareholder or a billion, it is an entity that has no place in a democratic society. If someone wants to risk starting a business, they should bear ALL the financial risk, including losing everything they own. Maybe that would cut down on some of the corporate excess, bad business practices and wasteful spending, eliminating the need for government bailouts.
So you think that just b/c we own a restaurant, we should put our house up as collateral, plus any monies we might come into in the future, just in case the business fails? Why would ANYBODY in their right mind take a risk like that? It would destroy America if this kind of program was enacted.

I completely agree with you on the bailouts, but again, that is not capitalism, that is gov't interference. I believe no bailouts should have been given as no business should be too big to fail. Bad business practices, well, if a company wants to do stupid things, it will face the consequences profit-wise. That is the only way to really impact a company...make it lose profits. If they do this on their own, they are mismanaging the company and deserve any bad thing that comes their way.

Quote:
Big conglomerates have the cash to crush Ma and Pa small businesses, which is why they put those stores under! It's not fair competition. I'd support the government breaking up large businesses into smaller ones, and I'd also support governments (federal, state, local) starting up their own state-owned, worker-driven businesses to compete with privately owned firms. The government should set aside a certain percentage of the economy for employee-owned businesses, as well.
It IS fair competition, though. A place that opens up next to Walmart selling the same types of goods is stupid! A stupid business move. It is completely fair b/c the owners chose that niche, they chose the location, they chose to finance or not, they chose their vendors (and thus, their cost of goods), everything that goes on is what THEY chose. Again, bad business decisions usually lead down the path to bankruptcy. And again, that is the owners' fault, not that of Walmart.

The rest of this section sounds very socialistic at the least, communist at worst. Not sure I like where your thoughts are heading.

Quote:

A few things I would do to help fix our economy:

1) Abolish all free-trade agreements (NAFTA, CAFTA, etc.)
Don't have enough info to make a firm decision but I tend to agree.

Quote:
2) Abolish corporations/limited liability entities
No, for reasons stated above.

Quote:
3) Raise income tax rates on those making $50,000 or more per year
No way, as you would be killing many middle class folks as well as those who fund small businesses and charities. Not to mention people who live in NYC or LA or the like where the cost of living is high and $50k won't get them anywhere. Really bad move.

Quote:
4) Pass laws making it illegal for businesses to offshore jobs or move overseas
This is not necessary. More laws are not the answer. The answer is to reduce barriers to the marketplace that already exist.

Quote:
5) Abolish all private health insurance companies. Create a single-payer, federal health insurance system
This is not an option that will ever pan out in America, for reasons that are OT. Just suffice it to say I wholeheartedly disagree that this would bring anything valuable to the market.

Quote:
6) Establish a federal "Department of the Economy," which will set minimum and maximum prices for all products, minimum and maximum wages, set production schedules of essential goods and control monetary and fiscal policy.
WAY too much control. Again, back to the socialist/commy crap. Not cool at all. Remember, aside from commodities, people will not pay more for a good than it's worth. Let the market set its own prices.

Quote:
7) Establish state-owned, worker-led businesses to compete with private firms
Again, too much socialist/commy stuff that does not make sense here in America. You are asking for big gov't whether you realize it or not.

Quote:
8) Promote employee-owned businesses
Agreed, but again, it should be left up to the companies whether they want to trade publicly or not.

Quote:
9) Make it illegal for an individual to donate more than $100 to any one politician
I think $100 is too low but I can get behind some kind of campaign donation reform.

Quote:
10) Make lobbying illegal
I don't know what all lobbying entails but if it involves money being thrown at a politician or deals being made that are not in the best interests of the electorate, I would agree.
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Old 03-09-2011, 02:08 AM
 
140 posts, read 255,740 times
Reputation: 219
I think I have figured out why Wazoopilot hates capitalism so bad, his business is failing or already has because he is selling a product nobody wants or is selling it at a price few are willing to pay. I say if he thinks things are so much better in another country he should pack up and move there and denounce his US citizenship.
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Old 03-09-2011, 02:22 AM
 
Location: Atlanta metro
5,645 posts, read 3,980,836 times
Reputation: 982
Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
Exactly, this is why we need to bring the risk back to capitalism. What you describe is neither capitalism or free.
No, we need to remove the gov't backing of companies (i.e., bailouts and subsidies). The risk is there, they could lose it all, and they would have if our buddy Obummer hadn't bailed them out.
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Old 03-09-2011, 02:29 AM
 
Location: Atlanta metro
5,645 posts, read 3,980,836 times
Reputation: 982
Quote:
Originally Posted by kazoopilot View Post
This is false. No one is "born to be a bum."

Right, no one was born to be a bum, they become a bum from their own actions or lack thereof.
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