U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 03-17-2011, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Old Town Alexandria
14,506 posts, read 23,200,696 times
Reputation: 8833

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
Correct. And it's sad how many people don't understand how creating new money out of nothing devalues all money and assets denominated in dollars that already exist, including people's savings. But even those that understand this basic level common sense stuff, don't understand the full magnitude of the problem which goes far beyond that.

The problem is not a "1 to 1" equation .... it's not simple math such as doubling the money supply effectively halving the value .... it's way worse ... impossible to quantify ... and variable based on the interest rates.

For example, if the Federal Reserve creates, lets say, $1000 new dollars. They charge Uncle Sam (you and me) 2.5%. or $25. That is tacked onto the national debt. Now, the FED issues that $1000 to a bank at 2.5%. That has already added a 5% debt load on each dollar ... or $50 in this case. Now, that $1000 is really $950. The Bank can then take that $1000, and as permitted by the fractional reserve banking regulations, lend 10 times that amount, or $10,000, and charge what ever the going commercial or residential rates are for real estate loans or car loans or what have you. Let's say that averages out to a rate of 6%. That 6% isn't 6% of the original $1000 ... it is 6% of $10,000, or $600. So, add the initial debt load of $50 + $600, you have the FED and their Banking partner making a $650 profit from an "original" $1000. OK ? That's bad, but it's even worse than it looks. If that "original" $1000 was actually worth $1000, that would mean that the FED and their outlet Bank took $650 of that $1000, leaving only $350 of real cash for the "system". But since that original $1000 was created out of thin air, and not worth a single penny in reality ... where does that $650 profit the FED and the Bank made on the transaction actually come from? It comes from the collective value of that which exists inside the system at the time that $1000 was created.

So the theft is quite overt even though it is not being recognized. But it is felt in the form of rising prices, failing business, and lost jobs, because SOMEBODY or SOMETHING has to pay that $650 SOMEHOW.

The impact isn't immediate, because that $650 isn't extracted immediately, it is paid over time, which means it also isn't $650 ... it will be way more in terms of compound interest such as that of a home or car loan.

In such an "economic model" there is some production value that is generated by the injection of that $1000 turned into $10,000 by the Bank. Let's say that entire $10,000 was lent to a business that managed to turn a 15% profit on that money. This $150 profit to the business is still just a fraction of the $650 the FED and Bank made right from the start, and only reduces the amount being "extracted" from the system.

This is of course a "simplified" scenario, and there are many other elements and variables at work, such as the creation of a bond for that original $1000 ... an it's rate of return ... and where the $10,000 goes and the terms of repayment. ALSO ... the mechanisms at work literally does contract the actual cash supply in circulation, depending on methods of repayment. Whether or not the original $1000 was an electronic creation or actual printed money is irrelevant, since we know that the additional $9,000 created from the original $1000 by the Bank is electronic in nature. If the repayment of that money comes from cash payments, some portion of that cash is being removed from circulation.

With all of that said ... it really can be summed up in much fewer words. What this REALLY is, is a gigantic counterfeiting operation by the "Primary Dealer" .. the private international gangsters calling themselves the Federal Reserve, using their lackeys at the US Treasury to perform the labor of creating money from paper and ink, and bribing congress to pass phony laws allowing such counterfeiting to continue.

And since it's been going on for almost 100 years, the reality is you CAN "Fool most of the people, all of the time". The ones they can't fool or bribe, they kill.
very well said. and the poster talking about "starting a small business in the land of milk and honey" is either 17 yrs old, or been under a rock since the Wall St bailouts.

Then again, the less educated can become politicians, like scott walker/puppet....so THAT does not really represent a good value to me....the "land of milk and honey" is what this country was when my father fought in the war.....That country has been decimated, sadly.
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-17-2011, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Old Town Alexandria
14,506 posts, read 23,200,696 times
Reputation: 8833
Lol, so capitalism is great because Cubans want to migrate here to get out of a Communist country?

Great reasoning. Thats the "my wife doesnt want to poison me so she clearly loves me" theory used in 1970 which proved the Vietnam War was still working.[NOT]
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-17-2011, 03:32 PM
 
959 posts, read 1,116,320 times
Reputation: 363
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamofmonterey View Post
Lol, so capitalism is great because Cubans want to migrate here to get out of a Communist country?

Great reasoning. Thats the "my wife doesnt want to poison me so she clearly loves me" theory used in 1970 which proved the Vietnam War was still working.[NOT]
I don't see these Mexicans and Cubans leaving their country in order to start a new life in Venezuela, China, or North Korea. It always the capitalist U.S that they choose.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-17-2011, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Old Town Alexandria
14,506 posts, read 23,200,696 times
Reputation: 8833
Thats the same reason why they liked Jeb Bush for governor down in South Florida. Visit it- they arent living great. W. enacted the federal law where they couldn't send funds to their family members in Cuba anymore. The right gets in, then strips their constituents who voted for them.

They could choose Switzerland, or Australia, New Zealand or Canada, or many many other places. Its just that those places dont have enough money/PR propaganda to feed pablum to the public like the U.S. does.

Same as it ever was....
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-17-2011, 03:52 PM
 
5,915 posts, read 4,015,043 times
Reputation: 1396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Blood View Post
I don't see these Mexicans and Cubans leaving their country in order to start a new life in Venezuela, China, or North Korea. It always the capitalist U.S that they choose.
Even Canada is not good enough to them.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-17-2011, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Old Town Alexandria
14,506 posts, read 23,200,696 times
Reputation: 8833
Quote:
Originally Posted by kazoopilot View Post



Exactly. Awesome post. It is absolutely unacceptable how much wealth the top 10% own, and how little the bottom 50% have. It is disgusting. We aren't becoming a nation of nobles and serfs, we already are one. Our system is evil. Crush capitalism.

Did you know that real income for the middle class has actually declined since 1980?

Income inequality in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, the dollar amount is higher, but that's only from inflation.

Compare our situation to that in Canada, a country virtually identical to the United States:

New study documents increasing income inequality in Canada

Yes, the capitalist conservatives are starting to take hold in Canada, as well. I don't think Canada goes nearly far enough, but I still think their situation is much better than ours in the US.

Sweden is the country with the lowest income inequality, and their system (not Cuba, Russia, etc.) is what I propose we should do here:

File:Gini Coefficient World CIA Report 2009.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Even in Canada, at least if you need to put a relative in an assisted living facility, the "company" which manages the facility doesnt ask you to sign over the patients mail and pension checks...


I kid you not. Went through his personally in this great country, the U.S. where healthcare is for profit, a CEO driven rape and pillage system. The system is broken, it doesnt work. Just ask anyone who gets 23 bills and a lien on their house after their kid is in the ER for 1 day. Its insane.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-18-2011, 02:46 AM
 
1,811 posts, read 926,858 times
Reputation: 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirdik View Post
Again the problem is the government not corporations.
Corporations are as powerful as the government allows them to be.
I am amazed that people complain that corporation only want to make money - that is their purpose in life. They exist to make their owners a profit, and hire people to make the corporation a profit - for the owners. It is not, has never been, and never will be, altrustic.

I love corporations, the make all kinds of neat stuff and OFFER it for sale.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-18-2011, 02:48 AM
 
1,811 posts, read 926,858 times
Reputation: 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamofmonterey View Post
Lol, so capitalism is great because Cubans want to migrate here to get out of a Communist country?
Wrong way around. people want to leave Cuba to come here BECAUSE capitalism is GREAT.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-18-2011, 02:57 AM
 
Location: Columbus
4,879 posts, read 3,777,500 times
Reputation: 1442
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamofmonterey View Post
Even in Canada, at least if you need to put a relative in an assisted living facility, the "company" which manages the facility doesnt ask you to sign over the patients mail and pension checks...


I kid you not. Went through his personally in this great country, the U.S. where healthcare is for profit, a CEO driven rape and pillage system. The system is broken, it doesnt work. Just ask anyone who gets 23 bills and a lien on their house after their kid is in the ER for 1 day. Its insane.
Wrong. Health "care" in the United States is run by the government. Has been for awhile now. We stopped treating like for profit busineess years ago.

Here's a link to an article about for profit health care. This is how it would be run the U.S. if not for the governments. The doctors were mostly trained in U.S. med schools also.

Market Medicine in El Salvador by James Dunlap
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-18-2011, 03:47 AM
 
11,536 posts, read 8,470,564 times
Reputation: 3580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Blood View Post
I don't see these Mexicans and Cubans leaving their country in order to start a new life in Venezuela, China, or North Korea. It always the capitalist U.S that they choose.
Mexico is a capitalist country. You don't see them going to Venezuela or China because the wages in those countries are just as bad as the wages in Mexico, probably worse.

FYI many American capitalist companies are in China.
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top