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Obviously the lower income people struggle the most getting the basics, and are hurt more my all or most income tax increase. I don't know why anyone is about to not pay ANY income tax. If I am an employer and my taxes go up, eventually, I will have to raise the prices of whatever I produce, and that will directly or indirectly move your prices up. So, I tax increase on ME is actually being paid by YOU! The business won't take a hit, because to a business, everything is a business expense. The amount of employees, bonuses, and overall cost of items produces effects rising expenses and that includes higher taxes, whether they be personal or business taxes.
As far as the Smith quote, no one can win with that because many people won't be happy - which is subjective - until they have EVERYTHING of yours because they hate you for having it.
Charles Sands
Smyrna, TN
It's difficult to believe you're lower middle class if you believe this. You sound like you've never had a conversation with a lower middle class person. Most lower middle class people are fine with any decent job where they can make friends, have Sundays off, and be able to own a modest home in a decently safe neighborhood and being able to go on a cheap domestic vacation once a summer. That's about all they ask.
You just tell yourself they want everything so you can give them nothing and not feel bad about it.
It's difficult to believe you're lower middle class if you believe this. You sound like you've never had a conversation with a lower middle class person. Most lower middle class people are fine with any decent job where they can make friends, have Sundays off, and be able to own a modest home in a decently safe neighborhood and being able to go on a cheap domestic vacation once a summer. That's about all they ask.
You just tell yourself they want everything so you can give them nothing and not feel bad about it.
I AM lower middle class. You are correct. And you right. Most of them - including myself - are happy under the conditions you mentioned, but I also hear many people around me complaining about the rich. I try my best to be appreciative for everything I have or get, especially things I don't have coming, like bonuses at work. Every year, I hear people say things like "the company has SO much money and they give me only $300 [or whatever]". If it is a bonus, it could be a pizza coupon and I will be just as appreciative.
I just seem to hear so many people complaining about why they don't have this or why others have that or whatever. It's like they have determined that they are not going to be happy, and they want to blame people of have more (which is easy to do). Maybe that's it - I just spend a lot of time around whinny people.
I do think anyone, rich or poor, should be able to take any tax deduction they can. The gov't (and some people) has/have gotten the idea over the decades that all of everyone's money is theirs.
While you focus on federal income tax alone, I’m glad you brought out the additional burden that is levied on a greater percentage of income for those who don’t make much. There is a lot more taxes to pay than just income tax. No? This burden is reduced by federal government, by allowing people deductions. If that didn’t happen, the businesses will suffer, and so will people as they will be forced to cut back (if that were even possible).
And you didn’t get Adam Smith quote which actually fits perfectly with above. He wasn’t speaking purely on humanitarian ground (he has other writings that deal with that). Businesses cannot thrive without people having the means to participate in the economy. It is right along the lines of “the invisible hand” that he mentions elsewhere. If income flow heads in one direction, towards the top 1-2%, the economy would go downhill. In fact, that is exactly what has happened for last decade, if not last 3-4 decades. What it also does is create an economy based on credit. And people lose land, homes and virtually everything, to overcome that. This is not the society you want, right?
Self-interest is not the same thing as greed. Everybody wants more, but some people struggle to meet their basic needs first, much less be a concern of greed to others.
To answer you question, I don't want a society where people are losing their homes, cars, etc. But taking from the rich more (percentage wise) will not solve that. Say you have $10,000 in savings and you pay you car, house, utilities... If you loose you job, and you start through you savings, what happens if you aren't working at or near the end of your savings. What if the amount of pay from you new job is 20% less than from the old job and you have run through you savings. Eventually, something is going to have to stop working. Are you saying we should guarantee housing for everyone?
In my opinion, credit has ruined this county. With a few exceptions, I don't think people have to use credit. I think the majority of people use credit because they want stuff now and don't want to wait. Now, when I say this, I don't mean getting loans for houses and cars, I mean using credit cards for buying lunch or a stereo or other common things that people buy.
In my opinion, credit has ruined this county. With a few exceptions, I don't think people have to use credit. I think the majority of people use credit because they want stuff now and don't want to wait. Now, when I say this, I don't mean getting loans for houses and cars, I mean using credit cards for buying lunch or a stereo or other common things that people buy.
Charles Sands
Smyrna, TN
Credit is an issue that is promoted not just because people want more, but also because people are forced into it. One of the books I recently read spoke of an abrupt increase in suicide by farmers in India a few years ago. The reason cited was a collusion of some corrupt politicians that allowed Monsanto to sell genetically modified seeds to farmers. These farmers were used to farming their own seeds but not the “high yield†seeds were genetically modified to not be useful past the harvest. In other words, the farmers were forced to buy new batch of seeds, every time. This pushed them into loans and ultimately confiscation of property, sort of circumstances that led to Shay’s Rebellion but without the rebellion part (as of now).
We’ve been heading into the same direction, with incomes falling (much less keep up with inflation), but some of the basic needs rising rapidly in cost. College education has become a business. While most countries have it available for very little cost, in America, the first issue is of acquiring a student loan. There’s a push for privatization of everything, including schooling system. People CANNOT afford to pay, will have to resort to loans and credit. As little as three decades ago, a family could be run on single income. Now, even most two earner households barely get by.
And where this is heading is over-reliance on credit. Increasing burden on 90-95% of Americans guarantees a society where desperation will rule. It is why progressive taxation makes sense. I, for one, cannot complain about contributing more towards the tax receipts considering I understand what it was like to make a fraction in wages. Yes, I am greedy, that I hate to part with “taxes†but the reality is, the taxes I pay are nothing compared to what I would like to make. And to make more, I want the economy to do well, the deficits to go down, the trade deficits to go down, the debt to go down and unemployment to reduce to a minimum. My income grew fastest, my job most secure, when everybody was doing well in the 1990s. So, when I wish for the poor and the 90% plus of Americans who make less than me, to do well, I’m really thinking about self.
I see the Wall Street Journal's "lucky duckies" are a hot topic again. (No joke. The WSJ used the term "lucky ducky" in several editorials to describe those whose income was low enough that they didn't pay income tax.)
43% of the country pays no federal income tax . We can take every cent fron the rich and not balance the budget for one year. the dems promote class warfare.
I'm so tired of hearing this statistic. It's BS. Ever heard of FICA taxes?
Credit is an issue that is promoted not just because people want more, but also because people are forced into it. One of the books I recently read spoke of an abrupt increase in suicide by farmers in India a few years ago. The reason cited was a collusion of some corrupt politicians that allowed Monsanto to sell genetically modified seeds to farmers. These farmers were used to farming their own seeds but not the “high yield” seeds were genetically modified to not be useful past the harvest. In other words, the farmers were forced to buy new batch of seeds, every time. This pushed them into loans and ultimately confiscation of property, sort of circumstances that led to Shay’s Rebellion but without the rebellion part (as of now).
We’ve been heading into the same direction, with incomes falling (much less keep up with inflation), but some of the basic needs rising rapidly in cost. College education has become a business. While most countries have it available for very little cost, in America, the first issue is of acquiring a student loan. There’s a push for privatization of everything, including schooling system. People CANNOT afford to pay, will have to resort to loans and credit. As little as three decades ago, a family could be run on single income. Now, even most two earner households barely get by.
And where this is heading is over-reliance on credit. Increasing burden on 90-95% of Americans guarantees a society where desperation will rule. It is why progressive taxation makes sense. I, for one, cannot complain about contributing more towards the tax receipts considering I understand what it was like to make a fraction in wages. Yes, I am greedy, that I hate to part with “taxes” but the reality is, the taxes I pay are nothing compared to what I would like to make. And to make more, I want the economy to do well, the deficits to go down, the trade deficits to go down, the debt to go down and unemployment to reduce to a minimum. My income grew fastest, my job most secure, when everybody was doing well in the 1990s. So, when I wish for the poor and the 90% plus of Americans who make less than me, to do well, I’m really thinking about self.
I am not saying that there aren't deals made in this county that put people at a disadvantage. What I am saying it this:
Lets take the lottery. Two people buy a lottery ticket. They each spend the same amount on the same tickets. One loses and the other wins, say, $5,000 or so. Many who lose will not say this, but many will say things like "why did THEY win" or "why isn't that ME" or things similar.
The problem with this is they now look at the winner with annimosity(sp) when they, if they had their way, would BE that person. I have a lot of respect for people with higher incomes, but I don't think most people at the lower end of the stick - but not poor at all by the standards of the world - look at the rich as winners, just people keeping them down. As long as they do, they will never be winners. Congradulation on your income, and you HAVE given me some words to chew on. First referrence to Shay's rebellion I have heard in MANY years. Wasn't that in 1794?
I have neither the time nor the inclination to read through this thread but I will say this. When the income of working Americans has either stagnated or declined while the pay of the rich have skyrocketed, it ain't about greed, its about fair value for the wealth that the vast majority create for the rich.
I have neither the time nor the inclination to read through this thread but I will say this. When the income of working Americans has either stagnated or declined while the pay of the rich have skyrocketed, it ain't about greed, its about fair value for the wealth that the vast majority create for the rich.
So, if I have some money to invest and it turns, say $1000 into 15,000 relatively quickly and you don't have any money to invest, I should be penalized for my gain. If you think that all you do is to make the rich richer, you had better get used to it, because with a mindset like that, that is all you will ever do!
How dare the poor and working folks get in the way of their exploitation by their wealthy owners.
Even when I graduated from HS and started working for $5. an hour I never felt entitled to more than I felt the job paid.
If I felt under paid, I changed jobs.
I took risk.
I invested in myself.
I never expected my employer to change their wage policies because I felt that it was too low for me.
When I earned the right to ask for more, I usually got it. If not, I looked for a place that wanted to pay me what I was worth.
Who are these people being exploited by wealthy owners?
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Yeah, the poor have all the luck!
