U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
 
Old 03-12-2011, 12:52 AM
 
Location: Tallahassee
1,869 posts, read 838,223 times
Reputation: 299

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by wehotex View Post
For what reasons would the gov't have to not let the truth out (if JFK was assassinated by LBJ)? All of the players of the time are dead. I realize that the gov't doesn't admit a lot of wrongdoing, but it could explain it away by using the Cold War to make excuse to cover up the assassination "scandal".
What can I tell you? I guess the people who were alive at the time of the assasination and had the power to make those sorts of decisions felt it was best to lock up that stuff. I'm not sure where it's stored........but I know that much of the physical evidence has been stored and will not be released for public review for the 75 years. I've read somewhere that Kennedy's brain, which they removed during the autopsy to preserve for the future has disappeared. I'd have to get out some books to be exact about some stuff, and it's just too late to get into all that tonight (for me).

There have been other official investigations into the assasination since the Warren Commission. I've read that Cuban exiles who were CIA people were involved in Dallas. There is a guy in south florida now........I think his name is Jose Padosa who supposedly knows a lot about it. He, however, is in trouble fro sneaking back into this country several years ago, so I don't think he'll be telling anything unless he gets kicked out of the country again. and then maybe he is too afraid he'd be killed if he told his story. Of course, maybe he has written it all down to be revealed after his death. lol He's a very, ,very old guy, and I think maybe he has cancer. He was charged with terrorism for the downing of a Cuban airliner with a bomb and killing all onboard.
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-12-2011, 01:07 AM
 
17,022 posts, read 9,079,698 times
Reputation: 5686
Quote:
Originally Posted by wehotex View Post
For what reasons would the gov't have to not let the truth out (if JFK was assassinated by LBJ)? All of the players of the time are dead. I realize that the gov't doesn't admit a lot of wrongdoing, but it could explain it away by using the Cold War to make excuse to cover up the assassination "scandal".

That would blow the People's confidence and trust in the government if that were the case.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-12-2011, 01:17 AM
 
Location: Tallahassee
1,869 posts, read 838,223 times
Reputation: 299
looks like I may be wrong about the 75 yrs. Just found this:

JFK Assassination: The Oswald-CIA Connection - Marines, Defection and Marriage - Conspiracies on truTV
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-12-2011, 01:34 AM
 
Location: San Antonio Texas
11,435 posts, read 15,960,800 times
Reputation: 5224
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesjuke View Post
That would blow the People's confidence and trust in the government if that were the case.

It couldn't get worse than now, could it? Talk about mistrust of the government.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-12-2011, 01:52 AM
 
Location: Ohio
18,053 posts, read 13,266,597 times
Reputation: 13871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perlier View Post
Much of the evidence in this case will not be released to the public until, I think, it's 75 years after the assasination.....
2039.

Documents classified Top Secret Cosmic get reviewed after 75 years, unless the president orders a declassification review before hand.

Carter did order a declassification review in connection with the House Select Committee on Assassinations, and some documents were declassified at that time, but Oswald's military records and more than 100,000 pages of documents are still classified Top Secret Cosmic.

One good thing that came out of the HSCA is that the marine officer who brought Oswald's 201 file (in a briefcase hand-cuffed to the officer) is that the officer accidentally revealed Oswald's Russian Language D-LAB score.

The members of the HSCA were not allowed to see the file, rather they asked the marine officer questions about Oswald's military service and the officer he answered or refused to answer.

Anyway, you cannot have a Russian D-LAB score unless you go to the Military Language Institute operated by the US Army at Presidio of Monterey in California (that base has now since closed and the Military Language Institute was relocated to Fort Huachuca but I don't if it is still there).

That would mean the Warren Commission knowingly lied when they said Oswald was self-taught in the Russian language.

The Commission also lied by omission when they described Oswald as a "loner" who kept to himself while stationed at Otugi, Japan. The other marines in his barracks said that Oswald rarely worked because he was gone TDY (on temporary duty) from the base for periods of 2 to 12 weeks at a time and that is why no one knew Oswald.

The obvious pattern here is that Oswald worked for naval intelligence, was trained in the Russian language, was stationed in Japan at a U-2 support facility for "show" and then inserted into Russia to conduct target data analysis on the city of Minsk.

You have to remember in 1960 there are no such things as SLBMs and ICBMs are not very accurate, and they cost a lot of money and if you intended to fire 3 to 5 ICBMs at a city in the Soviet Union then it had best be worth the effort and not a total waste of ICBMs.

Declassified CIA documents show the US was receiving on the ground intelligence about Minsk during the time frame that Oswald was there and at no time before or after Oswald was there. It seems likely that Oswald was the man on the ground feeding target data intel to the CIA and we'll know for sure in 2039, unless some president with guts orders a full declassification before then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perlier View Post
...when most of the adults of that time will be dead or to tired to remember or care. So a lot of the physical evidence is still not available to public review.
Not "most of the adults" but rather all of the people involved in the murder of JFK and the cover up. They are nearly all dead and by 2039 their children will nearly all be dead so that they won't suffer any stigma from the fact that their fathers murdered a sitting US president.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wehotex View Post
It's well known that LBJ was funded for years by Brown & Root (the forebearer of today's Halliburton) and that perhaps he did involve the US in the Vietnam War, thinking that the US would be out of there in a short time.
Uh, wut? Kennedy already had the US involved in Vietnam and when he ordered the murder of Ngo Diem and his dim-witted side-kick brother-in-law that basically guaranteed US involvement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wehotex View Post
If that were true, someone (anybody) who knew something about this would have squealed about it. It's not a secret that one could take to the grave with them without confession.
Yes it is. You don't understand fanatics and you certainly don't understand those people.

Those people are the "my country right or wrong" types to the Nth Power.

They're fanatics with a very elitist attitude (we know what's best for America and you don't) and they see themselves as heroes and saviors of America. They can very easily rationalize and justify the things they do. Killing 3,000 people on 9-11? Well, "war produces casualties" and the sacrifice of those people is a necessary evil to ensure America's continued greatness.

I'm a renegade CIA agent conducting illegal operations because, well. I'm a renegade CIA agent with people who work for me and black budget funded by the tax-payers. I can do whatever I want. There's no one looking over my shoulder.

Part of my responsibility includes getting intelligence out of Cuba about Castro. How do I do that when the US has been kicked out? Well, the US was kicked out, but the MAFIA was not. They still have interest in the casinos, hotels and clubs they ran in Havana and elsewhere over the last 30 years (I'm talking 1930-1960s).

So if one of my operative in Cuba says a Cuban guy is willing to gather intelligence for me, how do I check this guy out to make sure he's legitimate? I mean, you know, I don't want a double-agent jerking me around and making me look bad with bogus intelligence.

Easy. I go Sam Trafficante who runs the Tampa MAFIA and Carlos Marcellos who runs both the New Orleans and Dallas mobs and ask them to have one of their people in Havana check the guy out for me, and in turn I will do a favor for Sam and Carlos, you know, give them a heads up on raid or investigation or something like that, or maybe just give them money.

So Kennedy is coming to Dallas, what can I do about that? well, Marcellos tells me he has a high-level Secret Service agent on his payroll at the Dallas Secret Service field office. Why? Secret Service investigates counterfeiting and a few other crimes related to banking and money laundering, so having someone on the inside to tip off the MAFIA that there is a money-laundering investigation going on is like, um, key to the survival of the MAFIA. Uh, that's like Criminal Activity 101.

Okay, I tell Carlos I need Kennedy's Secret Service limo driver replaced (but I don't tell him why -- because that's not how conspiracies work). Carlos goes to his man on the MAFIA payroll at the Dallas Secret Service field office and tells him he needs Kennedy's limo driver replaced. The man on the payroll working for the MAFIA goes to the director of the Secret Service field office and gives him 50 Million reasons to replace Kennedy's limo driver: it's the smart move, it'll be good for your career, it's good public relations, it'll boost the morale of the boys in the office, the people of Dallas will have one of their own driving the president around, yada, yada, yada, blah, blah, blah, blah.

So Kennedy's normal limo driver gets replaced at the last second with an decrepit old man who hasn't worked a personal security detail or chauffeured someone around in 25 years. when the bullets start flying, the light and space will put a zap on his head and he'll freeze (which is exactly what happened).

If Kennedy's normal limo driver (who is with Kennedy all the time) was there, it's pedal to the metal and the first sound of gunfire to get the limo out of the kill-zone and maybe Kennedy survives, although with serious injury.

Anyway, that's a lesson in Conspiracy 101. I guarantee you less than 2 dozen people had a clue what was going to happen and fewer than that knew the intimate details.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wehotex View Post
I don't believe for one second that Johnson was responsible.
Johnson never wanted to be president and damn sure didn't want to be vice-president. He was forced into it because the only way Kennedy could possibly win is if he pulled the Southern vote and the only way he could pull the Southern vote is if a Southern senator or congressman was the vice-presidential candidate. Making Humphrey vice-president would have guaranteed that Nixon won.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carterstamp View Post
It was Oswald. Now, who hired the guy is still up for debate.
And your evidence is what? Oswald failed the nitrate test on his right hand. However, Oswald passed the nitrate test on his left hand, left cheek, right cheek, nose and chin.

The only possible conclusion you can draw is that Oswald fired a hand gun. You cannot possibly conclude Oswald fired a rifle because you have no evidence to support that conclusion and the evidence you do have refutes the possibility that Oswald ever fired a rifle.

As it stands, Oswald freely admitted shooting Dallas police officer J D Tippitt with a hand-gun, albeit in self-defense. Not that it matters, because in Texas in 1963, you kill a cop, you get the gas-chamber or the electric chair.

Since Oswald is going to be executed, what is the point of him denying he shot Kennedy? In fact, admitting to shooting Kennedy might actually save Oswald from being executed.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-12-2011, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Tallahassee
1,869 posts, read 838,223 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
2039.

Documents classified Top Secret Cosmic get reviewed after 75 years, unless the president orders a declassification review before hand.

Carter did order a declassification review in connection with the House Select Committee on Assassinations, and some documents were declassified at that time, but Oswald's military records and more than 100,000 pages of documents are still classified Top Secret Cosmic.

One good thing that came out of the HSCA is that the marine officer who brought Oswald's 201 file (in a briefcase hand-cuffed to the officer) is that the officer accidentally revealed Oswald's Russian Language D-LAB score.

The members of the HSCA were not allowed to see the file, rather they asked the marine officer questions about Oswald's military service and the officer he answered or refused to answer.

Anyway, you cannot have a Russian D-LAB score unless you go to the Military Language Institute operated by the US Army at Presidio of Monterey in California (that base has now since closed and the Military Language Institute was relocated to Fort Huachuca but I don't if it is still there).

That would mean the Warren Commission knowingly lied when they said Oswald was self-taught in the Russian language.

The Commission also lied by omission when they described Oswald as a "loner" who kept to himself while stationed at Otugi, Japan. The other marines in his barracks said that Oswald rarely worked because he was gone TDY (on temporary duty) from the base for periods of 2 to 12 weeks at a time and that is why no one knew Oswald.

The obvious pattern here is that Oswald worked for naval intelligence, was trained in the Russian language, was stationed in Japan at a U-2 support facility for "show" and then inserted into Russia to conduct target data analysis on the city of Minsk.

You have to remember in 1960 there are no such things as SLBMs and ICBMs are not very accurate, and they cost a lot of money and if you intended to fire 3 to 5 ICBMs at a city in the Soviet Union then it had best be worth the effort and not a total waste of ICBMs.

Declassified CIA documents show the US was receiving on the ground intelligence about Minsk during the time frame that Oswald was there and at no time before or after Oswald was there. It seems likely that Oswald was the man on the ground feeding target data intel to the CIA and we'll know for sure in 2039, unless some president with guts orders a full declassification before then.



Not "most of the adults" but rather all of the people involved in the murder of JFK and the cover up. They are nearly all dead and by 2039 their children will nearly all be dead so that they won't suffer any stigma from the fact that their fathers murdered a sitting US president.



Uh, wut? Kennedy already had the US involved in Vietnam and when he ordered the murder of Ngo Diem and his dim-witted side-kick brother-in-law that basically guaranteed US involvement.



Yes it is. You don't understand fanatics and you certainly don't understand those people.

Those people are the "my country right or wrong" types to the Nth Power.

They're fanatics with a very elitist attitude (we know what's best for America and you don't) and they see themselves as heroes and saviors of America. They can very easily rationalize and justify the things they do. Killing 3,000 people on 9-11? Well, "war produces casualties" and the sacrifice of those people is a necessary evil to ensure America's continued greatness.

I'm a renegade CIA agent conducting illegal operations because, well. I'm a renegade CIA agent with people who work for me and black budget funded by the tax-payers. I can do whatever I want. There's no one looking over my shoulder.

Part of my responsibility includes getting intelligence out of Cuba about Castro. How do I do that when the US has been kicked out? Well, the US was kicked out, but the MAFIA was not. They still have interest in the casinos, hotels and clubs they ran in Havana and elsewhere over the last 30 years (I'm talking 1930-1960s).

So if one of my operative in Cuba says a Cuban guy is willing to gather intelligence for me, how do I check this guy out to make sure he's legitimate? I mean, you know, I don't want a double-agent jerking me around and making me look bad with bogus intelligence.

Easy. I go Sam Trafficante who runs the Tampa MAFIA and Carlos Marcellos who runs both the New Orleans and Dallas mobs and ask them to have one of their people in Havana check the guy out for me, and in turn I will do a favor for Sam and Carlos, you know, give them a heads up on raid or investigation or something like that, or maybe just give them money.

So Kennedy is coming to Dallas, what can I do about that? well, Marcellos tells me he has a high-level Secret Service agent on his payroll at the Dallas Secret Service field office. Why? Secret Service investigates counterfeiting and a few other crimes related to banking and money laundering, so having someone on the inside to tip off the MAFIA that there is a money-laundering investigation going on is like, um, key to the survival of the MAFIA. Uh, that's like Criminal Activity 101.

Okay, I tell Carlos I need Kennedy's Secret Service limo driver replaced (but I don't tell him why -- because that's not how conspiracies work). Carlos goes to his man on the MAFIA payroll at the Dallas Secret Service field office and tells him he needs Kennedy's limo driver replaced. The man on the payroll working for the MAFIA goes to the director of the Secret Service field office and gives him 50 Million reasons to replace Kennedy's limo driver: it's the smart move, it'll be good for your career, it's good public relations, it'll boost the morale of the boys in the office, the people of Dallas will have one of their own driving the president around, yada, yada, yada, blah, blah, blah, blah.

So Kennedy's normal limo driver gets replaced at the last second with an decrepit old man who hasn't worked a personal security detail or chauffeured someone around in 25 years. when the bullets start flying, the light and space will put a zap on his head and he'll freeze (which is exactly what happened).

If Kennedy's normal limo driver (who is with Kennedy all the time) was there, it's pedal to the metal and the first sound of gunfire to get the limo out of the kill-zone and maybe Kennedy survives, although with serious injury.

Anyway, that's a lesson in Conspiracy 101. I guarantee you less than 2 dozen people had a clue what was going to happen and fewer than that knew the intimate details.



Johnson never wanted to be president and damn sure didn't want to be vice-president. He was forced into it because the only way Kennedy could possibly win is if he pulled the Southern vote and the only way he could pull the Southern vote is if a Southern senator or congressman was the vice-presidential candidate. Making Humphrey vice-president would have guaranteed that Nixon won.



And your evidence is what? Oswald failed the nitrate test on his right hand. However, Oswald passed the nitrate test on his left hand, left cheek, right cheek, nose and chin.

The only possible conclusion you can draw is that Oswald fired a hand gun. You cannot possibly conclude Oswald fired a rifle because you have no evidence to support that conclusion and the evidence you do have refutes the possibility that Oswald ever fired a rifle.

As it stands, Oswald freely admitted shooting Dallas police officer J D Tippitt with a hand-gun, albeit in self-defense. Not that it matters, because in Texas in 1963, you kill a cop, you get the gas-chamber or the electric chair.

Since Oswald is going to be executed, what is the point of him denying he shot Kennedy? In fact, admitting to shooting Kennedy might actually save Oswald from being executed.
Oh-My-God!!! That ^^^^ is so interesting! I have a friend who is very interested in this subject and has done a lot of research on it. You have so many good points. I'd never thought about the limo driver as being an important issue, but you're right, Kennedy's driver would have reacted in a totally different way and would have BOLTED out of there rather than stop! Good points about Oswald failing the tests regarding residue which would have proved he shot a RIFLE.

Have you ever heard of a guy who claims to have been one of the shooters on the grassy knoll?

I'm sad to say that I totally agree with you about the type of people who did murder JFK and I can't imagine anyone who could be elected President these days who would dare to declassify all that information. In fact, I would be surprised if very important and key pieces of information and evidence hasn't already been destroyed. Btw, thanks for a really informative post!
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-12-2011, 05:57 PM
 
17,022 posts, read 9,079,698 times
Reputation: 5686
Quote:
Originally Posted by wehotex View Post
It couldn't get worse than now, could it? Talk about mistrust of the government.

You are correct!
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-12-2011, 07:12 PM
 
Location: Tallahassee
1,869 posts, read 838,223 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesjuke View Post
You are correct!
I don't think it's about mistrust of government, I mean I don't think that's why those records are not public.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-12-2011, 07:30 PM
 
17,022 posts, read 9,079,698 times
Reputation: 5686
wehotex was commenting on this which was tongue-in-cheek about releasing info;

Originally Posted by bluesjuke
That would blow the People's confidence and trust in the government if that were the case.


Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-16-2011, 08:03 PM
 
Location: Illinois
2,415 posts, read 2,355,393 times
Reputation: 336
Default I am missing something..........

Quote:
Originally Posted by wehotex View Post
If that were true, someone (anybody) who knew something about this would have squealed about it. It's not a secret that one could take to the grave with them without confession. I don't believe for one second that Johnson was responsible. Since when did Johnson control the Texas media? I grew up in the same city that you did and saw no evidence of that. Most of the media control was exercised by the conservative Dems (now Repubs). Johnson was not a hard right conservative, more moderate. Just look in old news stories about how the hard right wingers spat on him and Lady Bird in Dallas in the early 60s.
...........you seem to be making my point. But maybe its me..........but when Barry Goldwater came to town there was little evidence of his speech given at the coliseum in Corpus. I tried but the Corpus Christi Caller wasn't talking....... and anyway my position could be wrong but now x CIA and FBI are talking.. And many others. Maybe the political loyal are segueing the curve, stuffing the ballot box, stacking the deck, twisting the truth. When it is twisted enough i suspect it is broken.
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top