Is it useless to even try to pay off the US national debt?

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by Boompa

We have this giant credit card out there that is maxed out, we continue bto address the problem by raising our credit limit while paying minimum payments. We need to raise taxes

We need to raise taxes AND cut spending. Just about every economist from across the political spectrum agrees with this.

We also need faster economic growth. I can think of two ways we could get there:

1. Reduce oil consumption with a gas tax since oil imports are about 46% of our trade deficit. We should raise the gas tax gradually and work simultaneiously to drill more oil, invest in alternatives, and make ourselvss more energy efficient by encouraging living at higher densities so that trasnport by walking, bike, and mass transit is feasible.

2. Reduce health care costs (50% of which are funded by our tax dollars) by promoting whole foods. Get real nutrition standards for school lunch programs. No more food stamps for junk and processed foods. Most of the diseases we are getting are completely preventable through diet & exercise. Most heart disease, diabetes, & high blood pressure would not exist if we all ate real food and got modest aounts of exercise.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by 58robbo

for our govt to do that is just blatantly dishonest. second that has serious implications for the dollar and your std of living. inflation also encourages debt and discourages savings esp if you have interest rates set by a central body.

Theese statements are all true. But the harsh truth is our government IS blatantly dishonest. And there are no easy or pain free options to get our financial house in order.

--Ending the wars in the Middle East won't be enough all by itself.
--Raising taxes on the rich won't be enough all by itself.
--Cutting wasteful government spending won't be enough all by itself.
--Cutting Social Security/Medicare/Medicaid won't be enough all by itself.
--Improving the rate of economic growth could potentially be enough, but realistically, it won't be.

Americans need to get their heads around the idea that they personally are going to have to make real and meaningful sacrifices/changes for the budget deficit to be brought down or eliminated (and we haven't even gotten to the debt). If that doesn't happen, we will default on our debts either through an outright default or through very high inflation. The consequences of high inflation and/or outright default are much more dire than biting the bullet now. However, I think Americans are too short sighted and selfish to admit this...so we are like the Titanic....slowly but surely sinking...the rate at which we sink speeds up as time progresses.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by 58robbo

sorry g 'n t, i'm heavily libertarian. i stand behind the gop on some of their rhetoric

Me, too.

Originally Posted by 58robbo

but i know they don't mean any of it.

Nope. Especially the part about cutting spending.

Originally Posted by 58robbo

as for the democrats, they pretend to have a more reasonable approach to topics like gays and drugs, but when the chips are down they vote with the jerry falwells all the way.

Yep. And on wars in the Middle East, as well.

Originally Posted by 58robbo

i'm under no illussion we live in a one party state

I'm not sure I go quite this far, but close enough.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by Jerseyt719

Everyone wants to talk about cutting the defense budget. How about we just cut out the defense of other nations and take care of ourselves for a change? That is sure to save a lot of $$. Foreign aid would be a great place to start the cuts...

Cutting the defense budget would help, but wouldn't be enough on its own.

The amount we spend on foreign aid is a joke. It's less than 1% of the budget and always has been. Please get informed.

[hawkeye2009]

Originally Posted by zoomzoom3

At $14+ trillion it seems we have dug a hole deeper than we could ever get out of. Some economists argue that we passed the point of no return long ago, back at the $2.5 trillion mark.

Why not just let it crash, default, and start from scratch again? Yes, it will be brutal, but probably not as bad as postponing it for decades.

Default is our best option at this time.

The two other alternatives, hyperinflation and marked currency devaluation, would be much more devastating.

What are the benefits of default?

1. Insures a balanced budget. With poor credit, marked deficit spending will not be possible.

2. Eliminates the social democracy. Social programs will be the biggest loser. Without deficit spending, social security, medicare, and medicaid will be a thing of the past. Keep in mind those "special issue treasury bonds" held by the social security administration- gone- kaput.

3. Cuts military spending and essentially eliminates the US as the policeman of the world.

[Calvinist]

Originally Posted by zoomzoom3

At $14+ trillion it seems we have dug a hole deeper than we could ever get out of. Some economists argue that we passed the point of no return long ago, back at the $2.5 trillion mark.

Why not just let it crash, default, and start from scratch again? Yes, it will be brutal, but probably not as bad as postponing it for decades.

That's like asking if the guy that weighs 800 pounds should not even try to lose it. It might take awhile, but it's possible. Even if it takes a looooooong time he'll be better off at 400 pounds than he was at 800.

Likewise, with an $8 T debt we'll be better off than $14 T.

[GuyNTexas]

Originally Posted by Jerseyt719

Everyone wants to talk about cutting the defense budget. How about we just cut out the defense of other nations and take care of ourselves for a change? That is sure to save a lot of $$. Foreign aid would be a great place to start the cuts...

Well that's not going to save a dime, because we don't "defend" other nations ... we blow them up and take their stuff. We just tell the American sheeple that bombing and occupying them is defending them ... and apparently few are wise to the double talk.