Proud To Be Liberal - Why Liberal values are American values (Ron Paul, legal)

[citigirl]

Originally Posted by Toninole

You make a good point. I think that some of us worry that once they start wire tapping you without a warrant and abducting people from foreign countries and torturing them - arresting for thoughts isn't far behind.

I really hope I'm wrong.

Thought crimes are already here in the hate crimes laws "real or perceived"

[Toninole]

Originally Posted by VAFury

Just making sure you are aware that extraordinary rendition is not some policy that was started by the Bush Administration, right??? Clinton has his hands dirty in that muddy water as well.

Actually, I honestly was NOT aware that Clinton approved this sort of thing. I still don't approve of it no matter who says it is okay.

[Rhett_Butler]

Originally Posted by GregW

VA - I think you attitude is very selfish. If I really knew who you were and you needed emergency help that I could personally provide I would not. I would just walk on by.

Funny, Oh bleeding heart, for I think you just knocked my point out of the ball park for I would stop and help you most likely.

The point isn't that as a Conservative that I am selfish or unhelpful. I just hate being told that X percentage of my PERSONAL income has to go to whatever help projects that CONGRESS determines is necessary...

Thanks for running headlong into that wall and making this illustration so easy for all to see now...

(Oh, and apparrently you missed my point where the author of our Constitution would agree with me as well... Congress has no right to do this with our money. Never did and never should.)

[Rhett_Butler]

Originally Posted by Toninole

Actually, I honestly was NOT aware that Clinton approved this sort of thing. I still don't approve of it no matter who says it is okay.

Yeah, extraordinary rendition has been going on for quite some time now.... And I agree that there are definite issues with it....

[Toninole]

Originally Posted by citigirl

Thought crimes are already here in the hate crimes laws "real or perceived"

My statement was meant to address citizens speaking out against the government - not hurling racial or hateful epithets at someone and then attacking them physically. Two very different issues.

[Toninole]

Originally Posted by VAFury

Yeah, extraordinary rendition has been going on for quite some time now.... And I agree that there are definite issues with it....

I forgot to thank you for the information. I very seldom actually learn anything new on this forum and I like to stop and thank contributors when they point out a piece of the puzzle that was missing for me. I know there are many things our government does in order to protect us that I don't agree with and I know the sole responsibility does not always lie with Bush just like Clinton can't be blamed for everything either.

However, it seems like we are sliding down a slippery slope to a country I no longer recognize... A lot of that has happened under the Bush administration and I don't see the changes as being helpful.

[GregW]

I used to be a generous soul but I cannnot afford it any longer because of the wasted money spent on conservative boondoggles. If you do not like the way Congress spends your money run for a seat and change it.

[Nirvana-Guy]

Originally Posted by Mithrandir_

Proud To Be Liberal - why Liberal values are American values

IF Liberals had all these great values as you point out, why did they almost ruined American from Lindon B. Johnson - Jimmy Carter did we have economic stagnation and almost the collapse of American economy, massive drug use, high suicide rate, a ton of abortions, and rise in crime?

[Rggr]

Originally Posted by GregW

I used to be a generous soul but I cannnot afford it any longer because of the wasted money spent on conservative boondoggles. If you do not like the way Congress spends your money run for a seat and change it.

Yes, conservatives are the only ones that spend on boondoggles.

Unfortunately, both side do this. I will point out that the democratic congress just added $23 billion to Bush's budget so thank them for you not being able afford to be more generous.

[Rhett_Butler]

Originally Posted by GregW

I used to be a generous soul but I cannnot afford it any longer because of the wasted money spent on conservative boondoggles. If you do not like the way Congress spends your money run for a seat and change it.

Hey I'm right with you if you are referring to this administration and the rediculous amount spent on it's pet projects.

As has been said, I'd like to see any true Conservative claim this administration as having anything to do with "Conservatism"...