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My baby suffered from a profound birth defect involving the brain that was incompatible with long-term survival. Rather than carry her to term and prolong her and, yes, our suffering, my husband and I chose to abort. She was born alive and given palliative care .
I dont think this very often about anyone, but in your case, I hope that Hindu karmic law manifests itself.
Yeah, me too.
As a nurse who worked in this area for two years and stood by the bedsides of many tearful couples as they cradled their much wanted but deformed aborted babies, I'm incensed at this ignorance and callousness.
I saw all kinds of things, some of which support the pro life complaints and some of which support the pro choice complaints, a testament to how complicated this issue is and really, better if everyone just minds their own business and directs all their energy toward improving their own character.
As a nurse who worked in this area for two years and stood by the bedsides of many tearful couples as they cradled their much wanted but deformed aborted babies, I'm incensed at this ignorance and callousness.
I saw all kinds of things, some of which support the pro life complaints and some of which support the pro choice complaints, a testament to how complicated this issue is and really, better if everyone just minds their own business and directs all their energy toward improving their own character.
"You must spread some reputation around before giving it to chattypatty again".
Well said!
Stan4: Yes, it was very painful, but death and suffering are a part of life. Nobody is exempt.
Thank your for your condolences. I am grateful beyond measure for the two healthy children I bore after terminating my first pregnancy. Life is good.
Now, back on topic . . . The OP's study is being used inappropriately by people with political axes to grind and believed by those who are seriously lacking critical thinking skills. There is simply no proof of a direct causative relationship between abortion and suicide, because there are too many other factors at play.
Stan4, Kshe95girl and Chattypatty: Thank you so much for what you do. Know that your compassion makes a tremendous difference to those of us placed in your care, even if we can't find the words to tell you in the midst of our personal tragedies.
Aeroguy, I am not on the liberal left. I'm happy to hear you say you will budge on abortion for rape and medical conditions, though I wish you would do more than "budge"; I wish you would make a firm stand and say that of course, there are certain instances in which abortion is the right choice, but that you believe MOST abortions are immoral. That is a view I could respect.
I understand that it is annoying when pro-choice people immediately pull out rape and medical conditions, as if to ignore all the other reasons for abortion that are not as compelling, but it's the hardline position of the pro lifers that is directly responsible for the conversation going in that direction. The minute the pro life side presents a hardline on abortion in cases of rape and medical conditions, I go deaf, and so do many others. That view is dangerous insanity, and it frightens moral people. I wish I could be more diplomatic, but I cannot. It has to be said.
You would like to believe there are only two camps: the one you are in, and everyone else. It's not that simple. I'm certainly not in your camp, and I'm not in the camp that smirks and snickers at the whole notion of sexual morality.
What you seem not to realize is that by presenting this hardcore view of no abortions for any reason, you are actually mobilizing all of those people who are on the fence, and sending them directly over to the pro choice side. These are people who share a lot of your views on abortion, but when you start talking about how it's better for a rape victim to have "her baby" and "give it up for adoption" as if that's just easy pie, or when you begrudgingly "allow" that a cancer victim could have an abortion so that she can start chemotherapy (believe me, I've picked up the pro life brochures and some of the crap I've read is horrifying), you frighten those very people who WOULD BE on your side otherwise.
Pro lifers who speak that way do not come across as moral people who are trying to shed light on the ugly and dangerous side of abortion, on the emotional damage that can be caused by abortion (yes, I agree with you on ALL those points), or as people who are merely trying to bring society back to a time when sex was holy, meant for marriage, reserved for only those who are responsible (a position I hold strongly) -- instead, pro lifers like that come across as deranged fiends with no critical thinking ability to consider extenuating circumstances, and no moral person wants to be associated with people like that.
Furthermore, the continued use of the term "inconvenient" to describe an unplanned or unwanted pregnancy is completely demeaning to the entire concept of motherhood, which is ironic, because don't those on the pro life side wish to confer great honor upon the concept of motherhood? You cannot convince a woman that she is doing a great moral deed by continuing her pregnancy and bringing forth life, and in the same breath, refer to pregnancy and birth and parenting as a "mere inconvenience." You cannot have it both ways. You either respect the tremendousness of pregnancy and birth, or you do not (and refer to it as "inconvenience.")
I am fortunate that all my pregnancies were dearly wanted. Sadly, I lost (by miscarriage) most of them because of a medical condition for which there is no treatment. Additionally, I suffered from hyperemesis gravidarum, a condition OF PREGNANCY marked by severe nausea and vomiting, for which there is treatment but for some of us, none of the treatments ameliorate the horrendous symptoms. HG is life threatening and often requires hospitalization for intravenous fluids and medications, occasionally feeding tubes and/or hyperalimentation (nutrients infused through an IV directly into the bloodstream). I have encountered doctors and nurses who were woefully ignorant of the condition, to say NOTHING of lay people, who may think a woman is getting a bit too dramatic over a little morning sickness. Until she passes out and can't be awakened. Then they generally catch a clue. There are right now thousands of poor women who are suffering terribly, because everyone in their circle from family to medical staff are just too stupid to know what they are dealing with. This is but one example of the horror pregnancy may wreak on a woman's physiology, even if it is a wanted, highly prized pregnancy! For you to refer to pregnancy as an inconvenience is terribly insulting to me and I want you to know that and to hear it and to try not to get your hackles up.
Formercalifornian has also bravely shared with you her experience of a very heartbreaking and difficult pregnancy experience, I'm sure in an effort to broaden your perspective, and yet, I think you have completely ignored her.
It doesn't matter whether rape, incest, medical conditions all together account for 10% of all pregnancies that get aborted -- those people in the 10% MATTER. When you refuse to make it clear that you believe those in extenuating circumstances matter, you weaken the rest of your argument even though it may have validity. Pro lifers who adopt the hardline think they are presenting a very strong front, but in fact, such a position creates weakness in your movement.
Is our society too promiscuous? Too blase about abortion? Lacking in sexual morals and honor? Yes, yes, yes. When you propose forcing rape victims to have babies and show contempt for women who choose to save their own threatened lives rather than forfeit them to avoid abortion, you become part of the larger problem of immorality in this country.
great post here and well said, but I fear it will land on deaf ears.
hard line pro life/anti choice will not stop until abortion is no longer a right. as long as you have bills trying to chip away, and restrict abortion, you will find pro choice people standing up against it. taking a radical stand.
much like people who are rabid about not amending our right to bear arms. roe v wade carries the same idea, chip away long enough and it will no longer be a right.
abortion has enough restrictions as it stands now. abortion should always stay legal and safe.
great post here and well said, but I fear it will land on deaf ears.
hard line pro life/anti choice will not stop until abortion is no longer a right. as long as you have bills trying to chip away, and restrict abortion, you will find pro choice people standing up against it. taking a radical stand.
much like people who are rabid about not amending our right to bear arms. roe v wade carries the same idea, chip away long enough and it will no longer be a right.
abortion has enough restrictions as it stands now. abortion should always stay legal and safe.
Yes, I should have made more clear, whatever restrictions I feel should be placed on abortion for moral reasons are in the personal, private domain, not within the domain of government. In other words, people should self regulate. If they don't or can't, that says something about our society's values that needs to be fixed, and getting government involved won't fix it.
Do you honestly believe that? I'm not the one advocating we kill our young.
You obviously know nothing about the theory of karmic law.
It would require you to go through the experience of former californian, over and over in consecutive lifetimes, until you learned compassion.
Which you seem to need.
My baby suffered from a profound birth defect involving the brain that was incompatible with long-term survival. Rather than carry her to term and prolong her and, yes, our suffering, my husband and I chose to abort. She was born alive and given palliative care for a short time until she died peacefully in my arms. My husband, parents, in-laws, and brother were all present. My pastor also came to pray with us and perform a ritual baptism and anointing of the sick.
You intend your words to wound, and your condolences are insincere. That much is very clear. Frankly, I'm not even sure why I shared my story. I don't need your approval to know that I did the right thing in the most compassionate way possible.
I wish that you could understand the very tender place I occupy in this debate. Chattycathy eloquently put into words a lot of thoughts with which I've wrestled during the past thirteen years. I am unabashedly pro-choice, but that doesn't mean that I think abortion is appropriate in all circumstances.
I also think that extremists on both sides of this debate have miserably failed women and their unborn children. However, I will not stand by and watch silently as pro-life extremists attempt to take away choice. I am just as much the face of abortion as every other woman who has ended a pregnancy, and I am committed to preserving the option for all the women who come after me.
thank you for posting your story. I truly am shocked at what was posted to you in reply. I tried to DM you to express my dismay but am unable.
you are to be commended for telling your story, putting yourself out there, even if it means hearing the ranting of rudeness. the last few days of posts makes me know all the more pro choice folks can not, must not give up the fight to keep abortion legal and safe.
again much mahalo
Actually, she had previously posted this (in Post 16):
You apparently only read half the story; the whole story was indeed put out there.
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IN HINDSIGHT, I HAVE SELF-REPORTED THE THREAD AND APOLOGIZE. I'm man enough to realize I've gone a bit too far. I believe I got caught up in the moment. This is an emotional issue, and my intent was not to offend anyone. Please accept my apologies, folks. I hereby request the mods please delete my comments.
I have tried to DM formercalifornian to offer my sincere apologies but was unable to. I don't wish to argue about this any further...and won't respond to this again.
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