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Old 03-16-2011, 01:07 PM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,886 posts, read 12,567,747 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
Nixon did it
Reagan did it
Bush I and II did it

But thanks for so conveniently overlooking that

The delusions of the right that their politicians are somehow pure as the driven snow are almost as entertaining as their often claimed imaginary moral superiority.

you should have also mentioned that fdr, tr, wilson and clinton did it as well
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Old 03-16-2011, 01:16 PM
 
29,976 posts, read 15,292,348 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SourD View Post
He definitely did. After he duped the people into thinking he was a devout Christian, he replaced all the crosses with Jesus on it with a picture of him in all of the churches.
Except for it never happening, cool story.
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Old 03-16-2011, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Miami, Florida
391 posts, read 441,129 times
Reputation: 250
Again, SOMEONE is talking about the Weimar Republic coming. I just thought I'd put out what happened when it went wrong. If SOMEONE wanted to see the rhertoric that was used at the time to persuade people into going with his vision of the future, I'd let people see what was used. The Enabling Act allowed Hitler to take the dictatorship of Germany and basically dissolved the reichstag. Without ALL sides present bad things can happen. My side, your side, his side. One side is a dictatorship, KEEP THAT IN MIND!
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Old 03-16-2011, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
7,194 posts, read 4,338,815 times
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The interesting thing about Hitler is, people can't stop thinking about him. He is this mythical figure that people want to brand as the pure definition of all things evil, but was he? That depends greatly on your point-of-view.

Hitler wanted the best for what he considered "his people". Which, despite what people might tell you, is very very normal. We are tribal by nature. So you want whats best for your family, your friends, your city, your state, whatever you identify as being "you", and you don't care as much about the people outside of that. Secondly, Hitler felt like certain groups were influencing Germany in a negative way(primarily the jews, roma, etc) and so he moved to curtail this destructive agent on German culture. He felt like German culture could not survive with the influx of non-German people living in Germany, and he felt the German culture was greater than other cultures. Which again, is very normal. People generally see their beliefs, their norms, their way-of-life as being superior to others.

On top of this, Hitler was a vegetarian and despised cigarettes. He felt like they were hurt "his people", which again, I can totally agree with. Hitler was not greedy, he didn't live a lavish lifestyle. He basically had nothing, he lived for Germany(at least what he wanted it to be). He believed without a doubt that what he was doing was "good", for the betterment of "his people".


Now, where does Hitler's ideas end up being the epitome of evil? That has be broken down into two parts. First, he invaded other countries with the intent of taking the land and destroying the people there, as well as killing off many "undesirables" in his own country. Secondly, he pushed his theory of genetic cleansing. Which prohibited "inferiors" from having children by forcefully sterilizing them. As well as the euthanization of other undesirables to help cut down the costs imposed on the nazi state for having to take care of them.


When you first glance at these things, you are basically conditioned to think of them as pure evil. That Hitler was delusional, and what he wanted was unrealistic. But was it? That depends greatly again on your perspective.

From the eyes of Hitler and most other Germans, I don't think they necessarily saw these policies as "bad". Hitler first had a policy of taking over territories that were previously part of Germany(which it had lost primarily in WWI). These areas were primarily inhabited by Germanic people. Think of it like the southern parts of Texas and New Mexico. If Mexico rose up one day and decided to annex swaths of Texas and New Mexico on the basis that it was 90% inhabited by Mexicans and it was formerly part of Mexico, is that necessarily wrong? Well, that again depends on your viewpoint. Americans will think its wrong, but Mexicans probably would see nothing wrong with it whatsoever.

Another reason Hitler wanted to expand "eastward" was because he needed to create a buffer between Germany and communism. He hated communism, felt like it was an abomination created by jews, and he wanted this buffer to sort of shield the common German people from being influenced by communism. And the reason he wanted to take over the Soviet Union was because he felt Germany was too small to be economically independent. It was too reliant on foreign nations for materials and resources, and Russia had vast resources which would allow Germany to be independent and powerful, and able to resist in the encroachment of other nations in its economy, politics, and culture. If you don't understand how economic power has an effect on other cultures, think of how many people speak English just because the worlds largest economy speaks English(and people talking about learning Chinese because of China's growth).

As for the Genetic basis of Nazi Germany. Let me first start by saying, America was already doing basically the same things Nazi Germany was doing. Hitler and the Nazi's only took it a slight bit further than what we were already doing. And while the Nazi genetic ideology was far from perfect, it was not necessarily incorrect. And if hypothetically the Nazi eugenics program had continued to this day, practically all gene-based illnesses would simply not exist. Many genes that predispose you to unwanted conditions(such as obesity, diabetes, retardation, addictiveness, asthma, homosexuality, etc) would be largely reduced or eliminated.

Imagine that world, it doesn't sound so bad right? Well, again that depends on your perspective. The world probably doesn't sound all that great to you, and really to me either. Because, I would not exist in that world. My entire family would not exist. Most of my friends would not exist. Looking out from the eyes of a Jew or a slavic person as they are being forcefully sterilized, watching the slow destruction of their beliefs, religion, and way of life. Or just being murdered in mass by the German army, that is a pretty frightening thought to have. And would necessarily be defined from that perspective as "evil".


The question you have to ask yourself is, are all cultures equal? Are all people really equal? Bad mutations come into being all the time in the human genome, on top of that, certain undesirable people tend to have far more children. What happens in the future when hordes of those people with basically "inferior" genetic makeups have 90% of the children. What happens to our ethics and values and beliefs, when there is large-scale immigration of people with contradictory beliefs(non-christians). What happens to our foundation of morality when everything that we believe about what is good and bad is shaken up. What does the future really hold? Should we do anything to stop it? What if the only way to stop it was to do things we basically see as being unethical? Such as stopping immigration, enforcing cultural assimilation, removing undesirables, and controlling population growth, and only allowing certain people to have children, or to allow genetic manipulation. For some, that sounds pretty scary. Including Charles Darwin himself.

Last edited by Redshadowz; 03-16-2011 at 03:14 PM..
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Old 03-16-2011, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Miami, Florida
391 posts, read 441,129 times
Reputation: 250
You had me, for most of it, and that's the reason for the post in the first place. Germany was not full of evil people when Hitler took power. They were hurting (from WWI) and looking for a leader. I think that we need to be mindful of who we listen to and just how much power we gie them. I believe in the saying "absolute power corrupts absolutely".
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Old 03-16-2011, 03:02 PM
 
13,507 posts, read 14,493,722 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miamiteacher View Post
..... The tea party would never promote the fact they they want to become like Hitler.
Stick around the PoC forum and you'll see we have posters that believe TP'ers are the spawns of Satan (aka Glenn Beck) himself.
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Old 03-16-2011, 03:05 PM
 
19,216 posts, read 12,491,472 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miamiteacher View Post
You had me, for most of it, and that's the reason for the post in the first place. Germany was not full of evil people when Hitler took power. They were hurting (from WWI) and looking for a leader. I think that we need to be mindful of who we listen to and just how much power we gie them. I believe in the saying "absolute power corrupts absolutely".
I read somewhere that Churchill said after the war, "If I had read Mein Kampf before the war, I would have supported Hitler".
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Old 03-16-2011, 03:09 PM
 
16,553 posts, read 11,077,517 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Except for it never happening, cool story.
Yes it did.....
Quote:
The monstrosity of Adolph Hitler's "Third Reich" remains a stunning chapter in the pages of history. Although the power by which he hypnotized an entire nation is legendary, one question in particular begs an answer: Where was the church of Christ? Seduced by the Satanic majesty of The Fuhrer, church leaders throughout Germany allowed the Swastika a prominent place alongside the Christian cross in their sanctuaries.
Hitler's Cross: The Revealing Story of How the Cross of Christ Was Used As a Symbol of the Nazi: Hitler's Cross: The Revealing Story of How the Cross of Christ Was Used As a Symbol of the Nazi: Erwin W. Lutzer: 9780802435835: Christianbook.com

Although this book states that the Swastika was placed next to the Christian cross, I saw a Documentary on this very thing last week and they also stated that Hitler made the churches that supported him take down the cross and put up a Swastika and pictures of him. Many church goers also did this in their own homes.
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Old 03-16-2011, 03:17 PM
 
29,976 posts, read 15,292,348 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SourD View Post
Yes it did.....
Ehm - no.


Quote:
Hitler's Cross: The Revealing Story of How the Cross of Christ Was Used As a Symbol of the Nazi: Hitler's Cross: The Revealing Story of How the Cross of Christ Was Used As a Symbol of the Nazi: Erwin W. Lutzer: 9780802435835: Christianbook.com
Quote:

Although this book states that the Swastika was placed next to the Christian cross,
So your one source doesn't support the contention that Hitler replaced "all the crosses with Jesus on it with a picture of him in all of the churches." Of course, most churches in Norther Germany wouldn't have a cross with Jesus on it in the first place, being Protestants.

Quote:
I saw a Documentary on this very thing last week and they also stated that Hitler made the churches that supported him take down the cross and put up a Swastika and pictures of him.
I saw a documentary that the Nazis had secret bases on the Moon.

Some church leaders undoubtedly let a bit of Fuehrer worship slip in, but that's a far cry from all the crucifixes in all churches.
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Old 03-16-2011, 03:20 PM
 
16,553 posts, read 11,077,517 times
Reputation: 4226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Ehm - no.


So your one source doesn't support the contention that Hitler replaced "all the crosses with Jesus on it with a picture of him in all of the churches." Of course, most churches in Norther Germany wouldn't have a cross with Jesus on it in the first place, being Protestants.

I saw a documentary that the Nazis had secret bases on the Moon.

Some church leaders undoubtedly let a bit of Fuehrer worship slip in, but that's a far cry from all the crucifixes in all churches.
Stop being so literal. More were compliant than were not. The point is that this happened, Stop your school girl games.
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