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Old 03-16-2011, 11:25 PM
 
3,007 posts, read 3,266,821 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom123 View Post

Race really is nothing more than skin color. Black culture would not exist if we didn't maintain a pre-1960s society based on skin color. The subculture's basis is faulty, it's based on historical racism. Many things considered Black culture, even aspects I love, are a direct or tangential result of segregation and oppression. As a result, we have to challenge the nature and cause of it if we want to move forward as AMERICANS, even if it makes us uncomfortable.

To sum it up, if historical racism didn't happen, you and I would most likely have the same culture. So I cannot accept something created and forced upon my ancestors as a result of that racism, even if some of it is positive. Accepting the positives, means accepting the negatives too, and I'm not willing to do that. Placing myself into a group above the individual is against my libertarian beliefs.

Yes, the differences exist, but what is true is that people's differences disappear and merge into common goals when they assimilate amongst each other. It's difficult for that to happen as long as we keep encouraging things like "Black culture" "redneck culture" and "Stuff white people like". It sounds good for positive things, but is divisive for negatives that pop up. Let's just be Americans, who merge contributions from all of us and place less emphasis on our differences!
Well that's a very interesting perspective. Thanks for sharing that. I hadn't thought of it that way before.
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Old 03-16-2011, 11:28 PM
 
24,843 posts, read 31,380,998 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chalie Brown View Post
Ha! Why don't you go around and talk with some middle aged and older black folks and see how happy they are in today's world. Not only do they feel for the young black men of today, but they understand our frustration.

There are some cool white people out there, but a good portion of you have this self-righteous, know-it-all attitude that I'd rather not be around. I'm going to get my education, make my money, and just stay the hell away from most of y'all.
Good.
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Old 03-16-2011, 11:33 PM
 
2,096 posts, read 1,594,305 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocLot View Post
I really think this argument is not as commonplace as many think. I grew up in the projects...there were many drug-dealers, thieves, addicts, etc. NOT ONE of them that I knew blamed their ills on how blacks had it as slaves. I just don't hear (and didn't hear) many blacks saying "Well, I'm doing bad because of slavery". They may say because of racism (which may or may not be true) or they may say something along the lines of the OP where they feel whites don't like them so they adopt an "eff them" attitude.

Do Jews use the Holocaust to blame current day whites or play the victim? This is almost never the assumption when the topic of their suffering is brought up, but it's almost sure to come up when slavery is discussed. It gets tiring.
Good evening,

The bold is along the same lines, since they're not accepting responsibility for their own failures. Whether it's slavery or racism, they are still passing the buck. I think when people highlight the slavery excuse in these debates it's interchangeable with the racism excuse.

I believe Jews are seem as more sympathetic because they seem to pull the Holocaust card in situations where it can stand up to objective scrutiny. The racism card has been overplayed by many Blacks when it had no merit, and the person was clearly wrong or contributed to whatever mess they were in at the time. Not always of course, but enough bad apples have poisoned real claims of racism. I've never seen a Jew who was clearly wrong claiming Antisemitism in the media.

I will admit that Jewish people and the nation of Israel in general seems to be a protected people by American media and politicians. I'm sure it has something to do with their power and influence in media and politics and the lack of ignorant Jews throwing claims left and right. If Blacks had the same influence and there weren't ignorant Blacks screwing up real claims of racism with their false claims, it would be similar.
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Old 03-16-2011, 11:33 PM
 
3,007 posts, read 3,266,821 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocLot View Post
I really think this argument is not as commonplace as many think. I grew up in the projects...there were many drug-dealers, thieves, addicts, etc. NOT ONE of them that I knew blamed their ills on how blacks had it as slaves. I just don't hear (and didn't hear) many blacks saying "Well, I'm doing bad because of slavery". They may say because of racism (which may or may not be true) or they may say something along the lines of the OP where they feel whites don't like them so they adopt an "eff them" attitude.

Do Jews use the Holocaust to blame current day whites or play the victim? This is almost never the assumption when the topic of their suffering is brought up, but it's almost sure to come up when slavery is discussed. It gets tiring.
I wouldn't say that Jews use the Holocaust to blame non Jews, but we definitely do wonder sometimes whether bad interactions with others are due to antisemitism. That's sort of analogous to your comment that blacks refer to racism as an issue in their lives, but not necessarily slavery.
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Old 03-16-2011, 11:41 PM
 
Location: Metro DC area
4,541 posts, read 3,540,649 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chattypatty View Post
I wouldn't say that Jews use the Holocaust to blame non Jews, but we definitely do wonder sometimes whether bad interactions with others are due to antisemitism. That's sort of analogous to your comment that blacks refer to racism as an issue in their lives, but not necessarily slavery.
Thank you for your honestly. I must admit, this is eye-opening for me.

Also, your comments about Jews not using the Holocaust as a crutch, but wondering if certain situations are the result of antisemitism is exactly how I think many blacks feel. We're not blaming slavery for our current day problems (at least not all of us), but sometimes when things happen we do wonder if racism was at the root of the problem.
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Old 03-16-2011, 11:48 PM
 
3,007 posts, read 3,266,821 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocLot View Post
Thank you for your honestly. I must admit, this is eye-opening for me.
Some Jews are less sensitive than others and much depends upon how "Jewish" they are. I am Orthodox and dress like a nun with a head scarf and everything, so everyone who comes in contact with me knows I'm a religious Jew. It may be that secular Jews who don't "seem Jewish" (don't have a stereotypical look, don't have a revealing surname) really don't wonder about personal antisemitism because they trust that the person they are dealing with (or interviewing with, whatever) has no idea they are Jewish to begin with. So I probably shouldn't give the impression that all Jews are wondering if they are being treated badly because they are Jewish. I do know, however, that most Jews I personally know, even if they are not Ortho, have a heightened awareness of antisemitism. I have never made any kind of claim or accusation even when I was pretty sure it was antisemitism because I'm so concerned about the negative consequences of crying wolf, so to speak.

Last edited by chattypatty; 03-16-2011 at 11:57 PM..
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Old 03-16-2011, 11:50 PM
 
3,007 posts, read 3,266,821 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocLot View Post
Thank you for your honestly. I must admit, this is eye-opening for me.

Also, your comments about Jews not using the Holocaust as a crutch, but wondering if certain situations are the result of antisemitism is exactly how I think many blacks feel. We're not blaming slavery for our current day problems (at least not all of us), but sometimes when things happen we do wonder if racism was at the root of the problem.
I can understand that. I do think that, as Freedom pointed out, I probably need to speak to more black people in real life, as a lot of the interactions on CD over the past year have given me a skewed view, and not for the better most of the time!
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Old 03-17-2011, 12:34 AM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,924 posts, read 27,190,230 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocLot View Post
So now that Tiger's image is tarnished, he's black, huh? I would wager that before this, you would have called him half Black (just like some do with Obama).
I would wager that I would not do that. I have never seen Tiger as anything other than a young man who played a mean game of golf. I am not one of those who have lost my belief in him for being the sexual player he was. I keep hoping he can make the come back that many of us want to him to have, but it just seems that his game playing took him to another world that he doesn't realize how to get out of.

No, I don't see either Tiger or Barack as any shade of black, just as men and nothing more or less. I do like one of them very much and the other, not so much, but their race or lack of it has nothing to do with how I feel about them.
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Old 03-17-2011, 12:41 AM
 
334 posts, read 146,641 times
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Maybe if young black men didn't idolize and emulate the human trash that they do, folks wouldn't be so quick to condemn them?

I'm not saying all are like this, but the stereotypes weren't created by white people.

The black community needs to stop glorifying lawlessness via movies and music. Once that happens, the youth will follow, and the bad reputation, individually earned or not, will go away. Until then, there is no point in asking this question because the answer should be obvious.
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Old 03-17-2011, 12:43 AM
 
1,082 posts, read 765,585 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Observation View Post
That's a lie and you know it.

Go watch a couple episodes of COPS, then get back to me.
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