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Old 03-12-2012, 06:29 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,581 posts, read 31,974,824 times
Reputation: 9423

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Quote:
Originally Posted by modeerf View Post
We have enough of our own energy.
Even if we produced 10 times more oil than we do now, the price would still be set by the global markets (NY and London), and it would be sold to the highest bidder. US is not the only country in the world.

Quote:
All oil is based on the dollar, we are the largest consumers.
No, not all oil is priced in dollar.

Quote:
Not hard to fix, if one wanted too.
You would have to nationalize the oil industry like Venezuala has done, and then set your own price.

Good luck with that, but history shows that communism does not work.

Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 03-12-2012 at 06:50 PM..
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Old 03-12-2012, 06:35 PM
 
Location: Oxygen Ln. AZ
9,321 posts, read 16,162,430 times
Reputation: 5685
Rest assured that when gas does hit $8 a gallon, we will be subsidizing the poor and giving them gas stamps along with the food stamps.
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Old 03-12-2012, 06:46 PM
 
3,600 posts, read 3,588,248 times
Reputation: 4964
Repealing the commodities futures Modernization Act of 2000 that gave Goldman Sachs, J.P.Morgan Chase and Barclay’s investment banks unregulated access to oil trading as an non end-user profit vampire would go along way in bringing the price of gas down.
It is just unconscionable that the same banks that created the sub-prime mortgage crisis are still being allowed to steal American consumers lives away through their speculation on oil contracts in the commodities markets.
This is just a glaring example of how broken and corrupt our political and financial systems have become over the last ten years post anti-regulation Clinton and Bush administrations!


News Headlines

Quote:
Concerns over the turmoil in the Middle East and North Africa is keeping the price of crude at the century mark.

You can bet that when the oil companies start reporting record profits for the current quarter, they will be blasted by the Obama Administration and painted as villains. But should the blame of the rising price of oil and the profit taken on the backs of the consumer go beyond big oil?

I decided to sit down and speak with oil trader veteran Dan Dicker. Dan was an oil for trader of the New York Mercantile Exchange for 25 years and is the author of the forthcoming book, "Oil's Endless Bid: Taming the Unreliable Price of Oil to Secure Our Economy".

LL: How would you rank the blame game when it comes to the rising price of oil?

DD: I would put the investment banks first. They have created and sold the instruments for retail investors and institutional investors to easily bet on the price of oil. The three largest investment banks trade in oil as well and make a couple of billion dollars each trading oil a year, which directly comes out of the pockets of consumers.

The investor is next to be blamed. They have fallen to a large degree for indexes and commodity ETFs. These new participants are exclusively buying; no one is selling and Everyone wants to hold. They understand the importance of crude in the global economy. The oil market was relatively stable until the commodity market was allowed to expand with the passage of the Commodity Futures Modernization Act in 2000. We have seen enormous swings both up and down since then, and barring intense intervention, we will continue to see very volatile moves.
Spotlight on Goldman as commodities hearings begin - MarketWatch

Quote:
At issue for Goldman Sachs (US:GS) is a major exemption it enjoys from limits on trading in certain types of agricultural commodities. Such an exemption is usually reserved for traders classified as "hedgers," such as farmers or food producers who depend on stable prices for their businesses.

Goldman opened the door for investment banks to apply for a similar status when it won the first exemption 18 years ago to help its big institutional clients in commodity-index trading, or investment in a range of commodities by tracking a major index.


The result, according to some members of Congress, has been a surge in all commodity speculation in the past few years, pushing oil prices near $150 a barrel and gold prices above $1,000 an ounce.

Speculators' index trading is "creating price disruptions for producers and consumers," said Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., late last month after the release of a 247-page report documenting how index traders have made large purchases on the wheat-futures market in Chicago and pushed up futures prices over the past few years.

It's time for regulators to "change course, rein in commodity index traders and clamp down on excessive speculation that is disrupting commodity prices," he added.

Besides considering removal of the special exemption, the CFTC, the U.S. futures market regulator, is also thinking of adopting position limits on all commodities, not just in agriculture. The move could curb the growth of some major commodity exchange-traded funds.

The CFTC "must seriously consider setting strict position limits in the energy market," said CFTC Chairman Gary Gensler, who worked for Goldman for nearly 20 years before being confirmed in May as the new head of the CFTC. He added that he has called his staff to research and outline "every authority available to the agency" to protect the markets and the public.
The $2.5 trillion global oil scam | GDS Publishing

Quote:
Apparently, there's a global oil scam making Bernie Madoff look like a petty thief.

If serial entrepreneur and Seeking Alpha columnist Philip Davis is to be believed, the world is being scammed out of $2.5 trillion, 50 times greater than the sum Madoff took from the duped investors.

According to Davis, the scam starts in 2000 with the formation of the ICE - the Intercontinental Exchange. The ICE - founded by Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, BP, Total, Shell, Deutsche Bank and Societe Generale - is an online commodities and futures marketplace that exists outside the US and operates free from the constraints of US laws.

After a Congressional investigation into energy trading in 2003, the ICE was found to be facilitating "round-trip" trades. This is where one firm sells energy to another, and then the second firm sells the same amount of energy back to the first company, at the same time and at the exact same price, as told by Davis.

No commodity ever changes hands

Quite shockingly no commodity ever changes hands, but the transactions still send a signal to the market, artificially boosting company revenue. Angry yet? There's more.

Because the trading is unregulated by Washington, its difficult to gauge the scale on which "round-trip" trading takes place.

But when DMS Energy were investigated by Congress, the company admitted that 80 percent of its trades in 2001 were round-trip trades. This means 80 percent of all trades in that year were false trades. Not a drop of oil changed hands, but the balance sheets showed increased revenue.

The idea is to hike up commodity prices. For example, according to Davis, after the ICE turned commodity trading into a "speculative casino game where pricing was notional and contracts could be sold by people who never produced a thing, to people who didn't need the things that were not produced", Goldman Sachs were able to triple the price of commodities in just five years.

ICE can create artificial shortages and drive speculative demand

The beauty (or rather the horror) of the scam outlined by Davis is that because they control the oil markets, the ICE can create artificial shortages and drive speculative demand in order to charge consumers an extra dollar per gallon of gas. And whereas this may not seem like much, this $1 soon becomes $50 billion A MONTH as global drivers consume 1.7 billion gallons of gas every single day.

Educate yourself as to why everything has turned to crap after 2000. Amazing how we have to learn the extremely hard way that not all government regulation is bad.
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Old 03-12-2012, 06:53 PM
 
3,337 posts, read 2,487,191 times
Reputation: 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Even if we produced 10 times more oil than we do now, the price would still be set by the global markets (NY and London), and it would be sold to the highest bidder. US is not the only country in the world.


No, not all oil is priced in dollar.



You would have to nationalize the oil industry like Venezuala has done, and then set your own price.

Good luck with that, but history shows that communism does not work.
How are Public Utilities kept in check?

It's not communist to regulate a National necessity, when Fascists run the energy.
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Old 03-12-2012, 06:55 PM
 
3,337 posts, read 2,487,191 times
Reputation: 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by MotleyCrew View Post
Rest assured that when gas does hit $8 a gallon, we will be subsidizing the poor and giving them gas stamps along with the food stamps.
Food stamps are given, so that the grocery stores are not burned to the ground.

THe same goes for gas stations.

Did you hear there is an epidemic in Laundry detergent theft. Tide is the product of choice.
http://www.thedaily.com/page/2012/03...ide-theft-1-4/

When Capital and labor get spread so far apart. The poor get pissed.

It is historically un deniable.
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Old 03-12-2012, 08:01 PM
 
Location: Youngstown, Oh.
4,785 posts, read 7,360,359 times
Reputation: 4315
Quote:
Originally Posted by modeerf View Post
How are Public Utilities kept in check?

It's not communist to regulate a National necessity, when Fascists run the energy.
Why did we allow gasoline to become a national necessity? If we invested more in other forms of transportation, instead of just roads, roads, and roads, maybe there would be fewer people who "need" gasoline?
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Old 03-12-2012, 08:18 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
7,450 posts, read 5,631,459 times
Reputation: 2165
Still waiting on someone to tell me who this mystical magical dictator that can wave a wand and set gas prices is.
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Old 03-12-2012, 08:27 PM
 
4,043 posts, read 2,895,886 times
Reputation: 1948
Quote:
Originally Posted by twinArmageddons View Post
Still waiting on someone to tell me who this mystical magical dictator that can wave a wand and set gas prices is.

This Communist is the magical dictator...well, he's still transforming us but he's almost arrived.
Here he speaks of coal, first and how his cap and trade, which of course he'll slam down our throats if he wins next election, would necessarily make our energy prices skyrocket...and hang on cuz after he names coal, he starts naming natural gas "and other" sources of energy.



Obama: My Plan Makes Electricity Rates Skyrocket - YouTube



Here the liar-in-Chief is asked if higher oil prices could help us....he was asked this in '08,and he said that he would prefer a gradual "adjustement" and hmmm...it's happening, but not so gradual right now.



Obama Wanted High Gas Prices...Gradually (2008 Election Campaign) - YouTube


Wow, this one above would make yet another excellent campaign TV commercial, aw heck, or radio commercial to defeat him. EMAIL this around to your liberal friends and associates.
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Old 03-12-2012, 08:44 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,157 posts, read 9,240,620 times
Reputation: 9054
Quote:
Originally Posted by modeerf View Post
How are Public Utilities kept in check?

It's not communist to regulate a National necessity, when Fascists run the energy.
Ahem - you should know that the so-called "Fascists" of WW2 were national socialists - a version of socialism (left wing). Instead of outright nationalization, they used ever greater regulation and taxation to "take control" over the private
sector - just like the U.S. government, now.

Fascism, by definition, is right wing - in support of traditional authority, not opposed to traditional authority, as was Hitler and Mussolini.

And "regulation" is only necessary for those enjoying the government privilege of limited liability. Without limited liability, any business that does injury, pays compensation. If criminal injury occurs, its liable parties are punished.
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Old 03-12-2012, 08:48 PM
 
2,542 posts, read 3,534,559 times
Reputation: 993
Do you honestly think he gives a rats ass about the average person? Him and lardass travel all over the world with all their disconnected families. Take loads of vacations, shut down highways, business and take several planes, even to bring a dead kennedy's dog.. But everyone else has to sacrifice according to him. I think he's done a great job for his friends living in the inner cities, like killadelphia and detroit.
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