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Old 03-20-2011, 04:15 PM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,862,853 times
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Back to the topic of the unprovoked attacks upon Libyan forces.
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Old 03-20-2011, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Flippin AR
5,513 posts, read 5,238,544 times
Reputation: 6243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet View Post
Afghanistan had terrorist training camps.
Iraq supported, funded and harbored terrorists.
And these were the primary and only nations "harboring" terrorists? Right. I'm sure it had nothing to do with oil and mineral rights.
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Old 03-20-2011, 04:18 PM
 
10,854 posts, read 9,297,960 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in SC View Post
Bluefly,Hypocrites often have trouble justifying their position.
Situation you are all too familiar with.
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Old 03-20-2011, 04:22 PM
 
Location: Here
11,578 posts, read 13,942,704 times
Reputation: 7009
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHartphotog View Post
And these were the primary and only nations "harboring" terrorists? Right. I'm sure it had nothing to do with oil and mineral rights.

Where is all the oil? Is there a 10 year waiting period?
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Old 03-20-2011, 04:22 PM
 
10,854 posts, read 9,297,960 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minibrings View Post
I would have respected W more if he had gotten involved to stop the genocied in Darfur. Who accussed him of not liking black people? Can't remember now.
Kanye West
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Old 03-20-2011, 04:38 PM
 
10,854 posts, read 9,297,960 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in SC View Post
There was no genocide in Darfur,the UN refused to classify it as such.
CNN.com - U.N. report:*Darfur not genocide - Jan 31, 2005
The lengths you will go purely to support your own positions only serves to insult your intelligence and any semblance of decency that you might possibly have.

Genocide in Darfur

Quote:
The Sudanese government appears unwilling to address the human rights crisis in the region and has not taken the necessary steps to restrict the activities of the Janjaweed. In June 2005, the International Criminal Court (ICC) took the first step in ending impunity in Darfur by launching investigations into human rights violations in Darfur. However, the government of Sudan refused to cooperate with the investigations.

On March 4, 2009 Sudanese President Omar al Bashir, became the first sitting president to be indicted by ICC for directing a campaign of mass killing, rape, and pillage against civilians in Darfur. The arrest warrant for Bashir follows arrest warrants issued by the ICC for former Sudanese Minister of State for the Interior Ahmad Harun and Janjaweed militia leader Ali Kushayb. The government of Sudan has not surrendered either suspect to the ICC.

Genocide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Quote:
Since the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (CPPCG) came into effect in January 1951 about 80 member states of the United Nations have passed legislation that incorporates the provisions of the CPPCG into their municipal law.
[edit]
Criticisms of the CPPCG and other definitions of genocide
See also: Genocide definitions

William Schabas has suggested that a permanent body as recommended by the Whitaker Report to monitor the implementation of the Genocide Convention, and require States to issue reports on their compliance with the convention (such as were incorporated into the United Nations Optional Protocol to the Convention against Torture), would make the convention more effective.[32]

Writing in 1998 Kurt Jonassohn and Karin Björnson stated that the CPPCG was a legal instrument resulting from a diplomatic compromise. As such the wording of the treaty is not intended to be a definition suitable as a research tool, and although it is used for this purpose, as it has an international legal credibility that others lack, other definitions have also been postulated. Jonassohn and Björnson go on to say that none of these alternative definitions have gained widespread support for various reasons.[33]

Jonassohn and Björnson postulate that the major reason why no single generally accepted genocide definition has emerged is because academics have adjusted their focus to emphasise different periods and have found it expedient to use slightly different definitions to help them interpret events. For example Frank Chalk and Kurt Jonassohn studied the whole of human history, while Leo Kuper and R. J. Rummel in their more recent works concentrated on the 20th century, and Helen Fein, Barbara Harff and Ted Gurr have looked at post World War II events. Jonassohn and Björnson are critical of some of these studies arguing that they are too expansive and concludes that the academic discipline of genocide studies is too young to have a canon of work on which to build an academic paradigm.[33]

The exclusion of social and political groups as targets of genocide in the CPPCG legal definition has been criticized by some historians and sociologists, for example M. Hassan Kakar in his book The Soviet Invasion and the Afghan Response, 1979–1982[34] argues that the international definition of genocide is too restricted,[35] and that it should include political groups or any group so defined by the perpetrator and quotes Chalk and Jonassohn: "Genocide is a form of one-sided mass killing in which a state or other authority intends to destroy a group, as that group and membership in it are defined by the perpetrator."[36] While there are various definitions of the term, Adam Jones states that the majority of genocide scholars consider that "intent to destroy" is a requirement for any act to be labelled genocide, and that there is growing agreement on the inclusion of the physical destruction criterion.[37]

Barbara Harff and Ted Gurr defined genocide as "the promotion and execution of policies by a state or its agents which result in the deaths of a substantial portion of a group ...[when] the victimized groups are defined primarily in terms of their communal characteristics, i.e., ethnicity, religion or nationality."[38] Harff and Gurr also differentiate between genocides and politicides by the characteristics by which members of a group are identified by the state. In genocides, the victimized groups are defined primarily in terms of their communal characteristics, i.e., ethnicity, religion or nationality. In politicides the victim groups are defined primarily in terms of their hierarchical position or political opposition to the regime and dominant groups.[39][40] Daniel D. Polsby and Don B. Kates, Jr. state that "... we follow Harff's distinction between genocides and 'pogroms,' which she describes as 'short-lived outbursts by mobs, which, although often condoned by authorities, rarely persist.' If the violence persists for long enough, however, Harff argues, the distinction between condonation and complicity collapses." [41] [42]

According to R. J. Rummel, genocide has 3 different meanings. The ordinary meaning is murder by government of people due to their national, ethnic, racial, or religious group membership. The legal meaning of genocide refers to the international treaty, the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. This also includes non-killings that in the end eliminate the group, such as preventing births or forcibly transferring children out of the group to another group. A generalized meaning of genocide is similar to the ordinary meaning but also includes government killings of political opponents or otherwise intentional murder. It is to avoid confusion regarding what meaning is intended that Rummel created the term democide for the third meaning.[43]
Quote:
By the International Criminal Court

To date all international prosecutions for genocide have been brought in specially convened international tribunals. Since 2002, the International Criminal Court can exercise its jurisdiction if national courts are unwilling or unable to investigate or prosecute genocide, thus being a "court of last resort," leaving the primary responsibility to exercise jurisdiction over alleged criminals to individual states. Due to the United States concerns over the ICC, the United States prefers to continue to use specially convened international tribunals for such investigations and potential prosecutions.[58]
[edit]
Darfur, Sudan
Main article: War in Darfur

The on-going conflict in Darfur, Sudan, which started in 2003, was declared a "genocide" by United States Secretary of State Colin Powell on 9 September 2004 in testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.[59] Since that time however, no other permanent member of the UN Security Council followed suit. In fact, in January 2005, an International Commission of Inquiry on Darfur, authorized by UN Security Council Resolution 1564 of 2004, issued a report to the Secretary-General stating that "the Government of the Sudan has not pursued a policy of genocide."[60] Nevertheless, the Commission cautioned that "The conclusion that no genocidal policy has been pursued and implemented in Darfur by the Government authorities, directly or through the militias under their control, should not be taken in any way as detracting from the gravity of the crimes perpetrated in that region. International offences such as the crimes against humanity and war crimes that have been committed in Darfur may be no less serious and heinous than genocide."[60]
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Old 03-20-2011, 04:45 PM
 
10,854 posts, read 9,297,960 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Well maybe Congress needs to know what was promised before they can have an opinion ? Don't forget..Obama took off for his trip to Brazil on Friday..far, far away from questioning DC folks.

Boehner wants Obama to explain US role in Libya - The Hill's Blog Briefing Room
"House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) on Sunday pressured President Obama to better explain the U.S.'s objectives in Libya before proceeding with further military actions.
..
Boehner and other Congressional leaders were briefed on Friday by Obama before the president announced that he had authorized the military to participate in allied actions in Libya."
The trip for Brazil was planned months in advance. It's not like he decided to commit to a coalition military operation in Libya and just hopped on Air Force One and decide to fly to Brazil on the spur of the moment.
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Old 03-20-2011, 04:50 PM
 
Location: The High Seas
7,372 posts, read 16,007,664 times
Reputation: 11867
It's hard to control flies. They seem to be everywhere, especially in places like that. If they can keep the flies away, more power to them!
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Old 03-20-2011, 05:04 PM
 
Location: FL
20,702 posts, read 12,525,985 times
Reputation: 5452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet View Post
He/she is definitely incorrect.
Maybe liebknecht doesn't realize that Abdul Rahmin Yasin, the man who mixed the chemicals used in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, was hiding out in Iraq. He was living in an apartment (paid for by the Iraqi government) and was receiving a monthly salary.

And Zarqawi. He was injured fighting U.S. troops in Afghanistan and was treated in a hospital in Baghdad.
you think we went to war with Iraq because of that?
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Old 03-20-2011, 05:06 PM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,862,853 times
Reputation: 2519
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyTallGuy View Post
Situation you are all too familiar with.
An example of this would be nice,would hate to think you are lying.
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