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Old 04-25-2011, 12:07 AM
 
7,541 posts, read 5,145,712 times
Reputation: 1831

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pollyrobin View Post
Did you specifically ask for a long form in person
You can't. Unless you want to spend three weeks to have access to them (meaning I can go see the record, I just can't get a photocopy of it)
I dont have that kind of time, and since the COLB is a certified legal document, there is no need for anyone in Hawaii to do so.

Because also this form doesn't have a choice. You are only sent what Hawaii offers (please show me where on this form I can chose "long form"):



Quote:
and why
are you asking for so many birth certificates
1990 - My first job. When I applied, I learned that you needed a birth certificate. I went to my parents (who hold all of my records) to ask for it. They said they lost it years ago. My mother went down to the DoH on her lunch break and got a copy. Like the one I posted earlier (Peter Kema). Used that, and got a job based on that COLB. I gave my COLB back to my mother

1999 - I applied for an internship in Florida. I asked my mother for my COLB so i could have it to fill out the application for work there. My mother couldn't remember where she placed so she told me to go to the DoH to get another copy. I did so, and received a COLB that looks like the 1991 version. when I left Florida in 2000, I left my COLB with my grandmother ( who wanted it to keep with her ancestry project that she was working on).

2006 - I was moving to the mainland officially. I needed a COLB because I dont know what documents that the California DMV needed; dont know what documents my place of work needed, and I didn't know what else I would need it for. Since my grandmother in Florida had the one I brought with me in 1999, I just simply went to get another copy. And in some cases, a passport isn't enough and needs to be supported by secondary evidence (like a Birth Certificate) - like getting a copy of my Social Security CArd (workers as the SSA offices can be very difficult to work with)

2010 - I requested another copy to debunk birther claims and to show that the COLB was changed in 2008.


Quote:
Aren't you the one who said, once you have passport,
you don't need a BC anymore.
Yes. You pretty much don't. I use my passport for everything now.

 
Old 04-25-2011, 12:30 AM
 
9,897 posts, read 6,595,358 times
Reputation: 2519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arus View Post
You can't. Unless you want to spend three weeks to have access to them (meaning I can go see the record, I just can't get a photocopy of it)
I dont have that kind of time, and since the COLB is a certified legal document, there is no need for anyone in Hawaii to do so.

Because also this form doesn't have a choice. You are only sent what Hawaii offers (please show me where on this form I can chose "long form"):



1990 - My first job. When I applied, I learned that you needed a birth certificate. I went to my parents (who hold all of my records) to ask for it. They said they lost it years ago. My mother went down to the DoH on her lunch break and got a copy. Like the one I posted earlier (Peter Kema). Used that, and got a job based on that COLB. I gave my COLB back to my mother

1999 - I applied for an internship in Florida. I asked my mother for my COLB so i could have it to fill out the application for work there. My mother couldn't remember where she placed so she told me to go to the DoH to get another copy. I did so, and received a COLB that looks like the 1991 version. when I left Florida in 2000, I left my COLB with my grandmother ( who wanted it to keep with her ancestry project that she was working on).

2006 - I was moving to the mainland officially. I needed a COLB because I dont know what documents that the California DMV needed; dont know what documents my place of work needed, and I didn't know what else I would need it for. Since my grandmother in Florida had the one I brought with me in 1999, I just simply went to get another copy. And in some cases, a passport isn't enough and needs to be supported by secondary evidence (like a Birth Certificate) - like getting a copy of my Social Security CArd (workers as the SSA offices can be very difficult to work with)

2010 - I requested another copy to debunk birther claims and to show that the COLB was changed in 2008.


Yes. You pretty much don't. I use my passport for everything now.
Well, I am glad I don't live in HI. That is the most
ridiculous thing I've ever heard, that under no circumstance can one get a long form. I can see
the cost factor of not just giving them for everyone,
but that seems well...I'd sue - if I couldn't have
a copy of my own personal long form birth
certificate. But needless to say, I think they would
make an exception for the President

The only thing I picked up on their law is this:

338-13 Certified copies. (a) Subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18, the department of health shall, upon request, furnish to any applicant a certified copy of any certificate, or the contents of any certificate, or any part thereof.

(b) Copies of the contents of any certificate on file in the department, certified by the department shall be considered for all purposes the same as the original, subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18.

(c) Copies may be made by photography, dry copy reproduction, typing, computer printout or other process approved by the director of health. [L 1949, c 327, 17; RL 1955, 57-16; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, 19; HRS 338-13; am L 1978, c 49, 1]
 
Old 04-25-2011, 12:37 AM
 
Location: Long Island (chief in S Farmingdale)
18,686 posts, read 14,808,155 times
Reputation: 3841
Quote:
Originally Posted by pollyrobin View Post
Well, I am glad I don't live in HI. That is the most
ridiculous thing I've ever heard, that under no circumstance can one get a long form. I can see
the cost factor of not just giving them for everyone,
but that seems well...I'd sue - if I couldn't have
a copy of my own personal long form birth
certificate. But needless to say, I think they would
make an exception for the President

The only thing I picked up on their law is this:

338-13 Certified copies. (a) Subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18, the department of health shall, upon request, furnish to any applicant a certified copy of any certificate, or the contents of any certificate, or any part thereof.

(b) Copies of the contents of any certificate on file in the department, certified by the department shall be considered for all purposes the same as the original, subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18.

(c) Copies may be made by photography, dry copy reproduction, typing, computer printout or other process approved by the director of health. [L 1949, c 327, 17; RL 1955, 57-16; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, 19; HRS 338-13; am L 1978, c 49, 1]
Its actually that way in quite a few states. Many states have transfered all of their records (be it birth records, death records, marriage, etc) digitally and store them on computer. Its easier, quicker, more efficient, etc. As long as the information on the certificate meets all federal requirements, states can design birth certificates however they see fit. This is nothing new, and quite a few states no longer provide the long form, its not even an option when requesting a certified copy and hasn't been for quite some time. Its not just Hawaii either, its the same in NY, as well as other states (hell depending on what state you live in, it could be the same there).
 
Old 04-25-2011, 12:38 AM
 
7,541 posts, read 5,145,712 times
Reputation: 1831
Quote:
Originally Posted by pollyrobin View Post
Well, I am glad I don't live in HI. That is the most
ridiculous thing I've ever heard, that under no circumstance can one get a long form.
Because its not needed. Certified copies, in whatever format is perfectly acceptable. The need for a long form copy (by anyone) would just be for nostalgic purposes. And none of the rest of that COLB is pertinent to proving that I was born in Hawaii; In America; a natural born citizen.

For me, I dont care.
The doctor that delivered me is dead now.
I dont need to know my birth weight and length because that is on the hospital souvenir my mother received.
I already know my mothers name
I already know my fathers name
I already know where my mom was born
I already know where my father was born.
I already know the age of my mother at the time of my birth.
I already know the age of my father at the time of my birth.
I already know what time I was born.

Quote:
I can see
the cost factor of not just giving them for everyone,
but that seems well...I'd sue - if I couldn't have
a copy of my own personal long form birth
certificate. But needless to say, I think they would
make an exception for the President
Nope. the president isn't above the law.

Quote:
The only thing I picked up on their law is this:

338-13 Certified copies. (a) Subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18, the department of health shall, upon request, furnish to any applicant a certified copy of any certificate, or the contents of any certificate, or any part thereof.

(b) Copies of the contents of any certificate on file in the department, certified by the department shall be considered for all purposes the same as the original, subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18.

(c) Copies may be made by photography, dry copy reproduction, typing, computer printout or other process approved by the director of health. [L 1949, c 327, 17; RL 1955, 57-16; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, 19; HRS 338-13; am L 1978, c 49, 1]
I've pointed out in bold and red where the Hawaii COLB meets these requirements. No where in that statute does it say that they must provide a copy of the long form. All it says that is certified copies, can be given as long as it meets the requirements above.



So Polly - what state do you live in currently? What state were you born in? (I dont need to know your city, I just want to pull up the Department of Health website for the states you were born and currently live in). I want to see what they offer to its citizens in the form of birth record copies.

This goes for anyone who doesn't believe Hawaii's laws. Let's see the policies of YOUR state.
 
Old 04-25-2011, 01:12 AM
 
9,897 posts, read 6,595,358 times
Reputation: 2519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arus View Post

Let's see the policies of YOUR state.
I'll give you my son's since I already have my long form.
For him, I have a Certified Abstract of Birth. It shows his birth date, time of birth, mother's maiden name, mother and fathers place of birth, mother's age, father's age. But he was born in a military hospital so I have all the documentation from that
as well.

Colorado. And yes he's got bronze shoes too
Check for Mississippi, while your at it.

Last edited by pollyrobin; 04-25-2011 at 01:36 AM..
 
Old 04-25-2011, 01:17 AM
 
9,897 posts, read 6,595,358 times
Reputation: 2519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arus View Post
rn


Nope. the president isn't above the law.

I've pointed out in bold and red where the Hawaii COLB meets these requirements. No where in that statute does it say that they must provide a copy of the long form. All it says that is certified copies, can be given as long as it meets the requirements above.
But in all fairness, no where does it state in there
that they can't provide a copy of the long form either,
if requested.
 
Old 04-25-2011, 01:38 AM
 
7,541 posts, read 5,145,712 times
Reputation: 1831
Quote:
Originally Posted by pollyrobin View Post
But in all fairness, no where does it state in there
that they can't provide a copy of the long form either
if requested.
we have the Attorney General for the State Of Hawaii (who knows the laws better than you) that says you can't

so - we take your word? or we take the word of a person who has at least a a law degree?
 
Old 04-25-2011, 01:51 AM
 
7,541 posts, read 5,145,712 times
Reputation: 1831
Colorado - No option for "long form" (and boy they rip you off on how much it costs) -
http://www.cdphe.state.co.us/certs/bicert.pdf

And you receive a copy similar to this photo:



The only thing different is that its contains place of birth for mother and father.. but oopsie. NO DOCTOR'S Signature.. guess its not official huh?




Mississippi - http://msdh.ms.gov/phs/forms/form522e_20090529.pdf
Nope, nothing on their form says that you can order a "long form"

(can't find a reference image)


BTW, Tennessee, like New York's COLB, has far less infomration that Hawaii's COLB


Last edited by Arus; 04-25-2011 at 02:05 AM..
 
Old 04-25-2011, 02:00 AM
 
9,897 posts, read 6,595,358 times
Reputation: 2519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arus View Post
Colorado - No option for "long form" (and boy they rip you off on how much it costs) -
http://www.cdphe.state.co.us/certs/bicert.pdf

And you receive a copy similar to this photo:



The only thing different is that its contains place of birth for mother and father.. but oopsie. NO DOCTOR'S Signature.. guess its not official huh?
You do know some people are born at home. Or by
Midwife.

Well, at least it has a little more info that HI's
and it includes ages of parents as well. But this is
just if you do it online, right? See I think the big
difference is we are comparing folks born in the
electronic generation, and those born when there
were no computers.

What about Mississippi?
 
Old 04-25-2011, 02:05 AM
 
9,897 posts, read 6,595,358 times
Reputation: 2519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arus View Post
we have the Attorney General for the State Of Hawaii (who knows the laws better than you) that says you can't

so - we take your word? or we take the word of a person who has at least a a law degree?
How long has he been in office
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