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Old 03-21-2011, 01:01 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
19,865 posts, read 18,308,470 times
Reputation: 7955

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I have to agree there. People of different race who were adapted by parents of a foreign culture and grew up there just like local kids, oftentimes still aren't treated equally. Even if they speak the weirdest local dialect, adhere to the local dress code etc.
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Old 03-21-2011, 01:04 PM
 
5 posts, read 2,644 times
Reputation: 11
Sorry we can't all be infants for our entire lives. Time to grow up and live with your racial handicap.
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Old 03-21-2011, 01:04 PM
 
9,056 posts, read 6,722,316 times
Reputation: 11008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
Get out more? I think maybe you should get out more. Your neighborhood might really be what you say it is(but I doubt it). And even if it really is as inviting as you say it is, it is an abnormality. I don't think anyone in their right mind will believe that black neighborhoods are as welcoming to the stray white guy as white neighborhoods are welcoming to the stray black guy.
I would like to respond to the rest of your points in this post - but until you recognize that there's no reason for me to misrepresent where I live or my experience living here, there's really no point.
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Old 03-21-2011, 01:05 PM
 
5 posts, read 2,644 times
Reputation: 11
How can you not be racist when every race wants to kill you?
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Old 03-21-2011, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
7,132 posts, read 4,315,819 times
Reputation: 2637
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
I don't find it silly at all. Government is for all people, and must ensure that its society is one that does not discriminate. When someone's personal life impedes on another person, it is no longer ones own private life. Government is not regulating a person's private choice, it is regulating how a society goes about.
Yes, but this argument for government being able to regulate a persons life because it might have a negative effect on another persons life can be made with practically everything a person does.

Take for instance the Westboro Baptist Church. The courts have basically stated that they have freedom to behave in a way that the vast majority of Americans are repulsed by. So should we take away their rights because we don't like what they are doing?

I don't like discrimination, but I don't see how it is possibly constitutional to prohibit a person from freely associating or freely speaking just because you don't like what they are doing or saying.

Government telling a private business who they can and can't hire, who they must serve, etc. Is taking away a persons freedom of association, period. There is no arguing it. You have been conditioned to believe that civil-rights are actually the protection of someone elses rights, but it simply isn't.

It is no more a right to not be discriminated based on race or religion as it is age and appearance. It is no more a right to be discriminated, as it is a right to be employed at all, or a right to be given healthcare, or to be given dwelling. These are not rights that were in any way given to you in the constitution of the United States. They are special-priviledges given to you by the state.

Civil Rights legislation is simply unconstitutional, and it actually takes away a persons rights more than it gives any illusion of providing rights. But it is foolish for me to expect you to understand it.

Quote:
A business is an artificial entity, not a person.
A business is not an artificial entity, I don't know what world you live in. A business is a person, it has even been recognized by the courts as being a person. Because a business does not exist without people. If I start a plumbing business, and then I run that business. The decisions regarding that business are made by me, it is me. A business doesn't really exist, because a business is nothing but people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
I am not talking about government jobs. I am talking about alot of private sector jobs. I don't want to work for the government. I want to be in a place where I can rise to my fullest potential. I am not here to argue whether things are bad or good. In fact, I even mentioned African-Americans have more political and economic power now than back in the old days. I was arguing that because of representative numbers, any discrimination African-Americans are put through will definitely be HARDER, not impossible, but HARDER to fight.
Are there no private-sector jobs run by African-Americans? In the absence of civil-rights legislation, do you really think you would be unemployed? Malcom-X originally spoke of black separatism and boycotting of white businesses. If you want my opinion about Civil-rights legislation, it was less to be some noble act, but more to prevent basically a Civil War, and to protect white businesses from being boycotted by blacks.

That is if in the absence of Civil rights legislation that there would be rampant discrimination to begin with. In fact, there is more evidence that discrimination would be less common in the absence of government than in the presence of governmental control. In fact, most southern companies despised the government imposed seggregation policies(such as the busses).

What I'm really say is, humanity changes over time, the problem with most people is they basically have no patience. They are ideologues who try to push their views on the rest of us. But if you push people, many times they won't budge at all.

Personally, I wish there was never a Civil War. In fact, I think black/white relations would be far better if the Civil War never had come. Even if the Civil War had come, I wish Lincoln had not been assissinated. The government despotism over the south that followed the Civil War is what created things like the KKK, and what has hindered black/white relations ever since.

Most of the north held slaves, but gradually abolished the institution. Those slaves became freed men, and then slowly were absorbed into northern societies with almost no hostility. Because their people weren't getting forced. On the other hand, the southern states were forced to abolish slavery, and so they fought against it. The end of the Civil War led to the creation of the KKK, destroyed the southern economy for over 100 years, and it made blacks, especially the wealthy blacks in the south, into the target of this anger.

I find the government of today to actually be the largest cause for racial hostilities. With the special-priviledges of affirmative-action and other protections. To even the disproportionate nature of other programs generally designed to help minorities. To the media's constant talk of racism in lambasting conservatives for their political gain. I believe that if people were just allowed to be themselves, as long as they are not inflicting harm on others. That this whole situation would eventually die down.

If you believe there should be equality and there isn't, then that necessitates the government to become involved and to impose rules that are themselves unequal.


Racism is not good, discrimination is not good. In fact, I get irritated with myself at times because people around me repeat what I say, and I don't like hearing it. But it is the truth.

I have not found many other topics where truth is so hated, than in discussions about discrimination and equality.
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Old 03-21-2011, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,777 posts, read 24,001,037 times
Reputation: 12105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
Yes, but this argument for government being able to regulate a persons life because it might have a negative effect on another persons life can be made with practically everything a person does.
And there are laws that do just that.

Quote:
Take for instance the Westboro Baptist Church. The courts have basically stated that they have freedom to behave in a way that the vast majority of Americans are repulsed by. So should we take away their rights because we don't like what they are doing?
Civil rights, for example, doesn't take away a person's freedom of speech. Why, do you think racists are like Westboro Baptist Church that they both deserve their freedoms (beyond that of free speech) regardless of the consequences?

Quote:
I don't like discrimination, but I don't see how it is possibly constitutional to prohibit a person from freely associating or freely speaking just because you don't like what they are doing or saying.
It is not illegal to freely associate or freely speak with whoever you like. You just can't do that on certain grounds.

[quote]Government telling a private business who they can and can't hire, who they must serve, etc. Is taking away a persons freedom of association, period. There is no arguing it. You have been conditioned to believe that civil-rights are actually the protection of someone elses rights, but it simply isn't.[/quotes]
Businesses are regulated and depend on the society. They need to abide by the rules.

Quote:
Civil Rights legislation is simply unconstitutional, and it actually takes away a persons rights more than it gives any illusion of providing rights. But it is foolish for me to expect you to understand it.
I am certainly no fool to buy into everything you're trying to sell. Saying that a law is unconstitutional doesn't do ANYTHING. Why don't you try to challenge it constitutionality if it bothers you so much? I will have my popcorn ready.

Quote:
A business is not an artificial entity, I don't know what world you live in. A business is a person, it has even been recognized by the courts as being a person.
1- In my world, business is an artificial entity, created and run by people.
2- In my world, they don't vote or run for office. Person(s) running them, however do.
3- You're alluding to the Citizen United ruling that is referred to as corporate personhood, right? As in that corporations and unions have the same rights to free speech as a person? Corporations and Unions are still artificial entities. No? May be not in your world, they are born and they die as a person?

Quote:
Because a business does not exist without people.
That doesn't make it natural, or a person. They are artificial entities.

Quote:
Are there no private-sector jobs run by African-Americans? In the absence of civil-rights legislation, do you really think you would be unemployed?
There are billionaire and multi-millionaire African Americans, I am sure helping bring food to many who adhere to white supremacy. I wonder how that came about. As for me, why do you think color of skin should take precedence over intellect and educational qualifications?

Quote:
In fact, most southern companies despised the government imposed seggregation policies(such as the busses).
I know, and that is exactly why the government had to turn things around. But, phase I really happened in 1807 when the federal government decided to ban slave trade. Civil War was phase II and ultimately the civil rights. Now, it is only a matter of time before we grow up as a society and treat each other with respect.

Quote:
What I'm really say is, humanity changes over time, the problem with most people is they basically have no patience. They are ideologues who try to push their views on the rest of us. But if you push people, many times they won't budge at all.
I know. But if you don't, they will take over. Take religious lunacy, for example. The fundamentalists existed in 1800 and they exist now. But it is the fundamental framework of this country, via laws, and respect for it, that keeps them out from a complete take over.

Quote:
Personally, I wish there was never a Civil War. In fact, I think black/white relations would be far better if the Civil War never had come...
I doubt it.

Quote:
The government despotism over the south that followed the Civil War is what created things like the KKK, and what has hindered black/white relations ever since.
Civil War brought out the reality. It was like trampling on an ant hill. And likes of KKK didn't just come about as a black and white issue, but also against Jews and lately Hispanics. They came about as promoting one race (and religion) over all others. They existed in one form or the other well before the civil war and around the globe.

Quote:
Most of the north held slaves, but gradually abolished the institution. Those slaves became freed men, and then slowly were absorbed into northern societies with almost no hostility. Because their people weren't getting forced. On the other hand, the southern states were forced to abolish slavery, and so they fought against it...
Why the need to force anybody?

Quote:
I find the government of today to actually be the largest cause for racial hostilities.
Politicians, yes. Government, no. Southern Strategy, for example is a political gimmickery and has no place in the government.

Quote:
If you believe there should be equality and there isn't, then that necessitates the government to become involved and to impose rules that are themselves unequal.
Not necessarily.

Quote:
Racism is not good, discrimination is not good.
And that is why they need to be tackled.
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Old 03-21-2011, 01:52 PM
 
44,564 posts, read 43,091,728 times
Reputation: 14375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
Yes, but this argument for government being able to regulate a persons life because it might have a negative effect on another persons life can be made with practically everything a person does.

Take for instance the Westboro Baptist Church. The courts have basically stated that they have freedom to behave in a way that the vast majority of Americans are repulsed by. So should we take away their rights because we don't like what they are doing?

I don't like discrimination, but I don't see how it is possibly constitutional to prohibit a person from freely associating or freely speaking just because you don't like what they are doing or saying.

Government telling a private business who they can and can't hire, who they must serve, etc. Is taking away a persons freedom of association, period. There is no arguing it. You have been conditioned to believe that civil-rights are actually the protection of someone elses rights, but it simply isn't.

It is no more a right to not be discriminated based on race or religion as it is age and appearance. It is no more a right to be discriminated, as it is a right to be employed at all, or a right to be given healthcare, or to be given dwelling. These are not rights that were in any way given to you in the constitution of the United States. They are special-priviledges given to you by the state.

Civil Rights legislation is simply unconstitutional, and it actually takes away a persons rights more than it gives any illusion of providing rights. But it is foolish for me to expect you to understand it.



A business is not an artificial entity, I don't know what world you live in. A business is a person, it has even been recognized by the courts as being a person. Because a business does not exist without people. If I start a plumbing business, and then I run that business. The decisions regarding that business are made by me, it is me. A business doesn't really exist, because a business is nothing but people.



Are there no private-sector jobs run by African-Americans? In the absence of civil-rights legislation, do you really think you would be unemployed? Malcom-X originally spoke of black separatism and boycotting of white businesses. If you want my opinion about Civil-rights legislation, it was less to be some noble act, but more to prevent basically a Civil War, and to protect white businesses from being boycotted by blacks.

That is if in the absence of Civil rights legislation that there would be rampant discrimination to begin with. In fact, there is more evidence that discrimination would be less common in the absence of government than in the presence of governmental control. In fact, most southern companies despised the government imposed seggregation policies(such as the busses).

What I'm really say is, humanity changes over time, the problem with most people is they basically have no patience. They are ideologues who try to push their views on the rest of us. But if you push people, many times they won't budge at all.

Personally, I wish there was never a Civil War. In fact, I think black/white relations would be far better if the Civil War never had come. Even if the Civil War had come, I wish Lincoln had not been assissinated. The government despotism over the south that followed the Civil War is what created things like the KKK, and what has hindered black/white relations ever since.

Most of the north held slaves, but gradually abolished the institution. Those slaves became freed men, and then slowly were absorbed into northern societies with almost no hostility. Because their people weren't getting forced. On the other hand, the southern states were forced to abolish slavery, and so they fought against it. The end of the Civil War led to the creation of the KKK, destroyed the southern economy for over 100 years, and it made blacks, especially the wealthy blacks in the south, into the target of this anger.

I find the government of today to actually be the largest cause for racial hostilities. With the special-priviledges of affirmative-action and other protections. To even the disproportionate nature of other programs generally designed to help minorities. To the media's constant talk of racism in lambasting conservatives for their political gain. I believe that if people were just allowed to be themselves, as long as they are not inflicting harm on others. That this whole situation would eventually die down.

If you believe there should be equality and there isn't, then that necessitates the government to become involved and to impose rules that are themselves unequal.


Racism is not good, discrimination is not good. In fact, I get irritated with myself at times because people around me repeat what I say, and I don't like hearing it. But it is the truth.

I have not found many other topics where truth is so hated, than in discussions about discrimination and equality.
I never said there weren't any Black owned businesses in the private sector. I wasn't even discussing that. However, I am going to point this out. My father is an engineer. He went to college and got not only a bachelor's degree, but a master's degree in his field. He loves what he does for a living. It would be hard to find companies that specialize in engineering that are Black-owned. Even so, why shouldn't a person be hired by any company based on merit?

As much as government force isn't liked, if people are being oppressed, then government MUST act to make sure the abuse ends.
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Old 03-21-2011, 02:02 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
19,865 posts, read 18,308,470 times
Reputation: 7955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
Yes, but this argument for government being able to regulate a persons life because it might have a negative effect on another persons life can be made with practically everything a person does.

Take for instance the Westboro Baptist Church. The courts have basically stated that they have freedom to behave in a way that the vast majority of Americans are repulsed by. So should we take away their rights because we don't like what they are doing?

I don't like discrimination, but I don't see how it is possibly constitutional to prohibit a person from freely associating or freely speaking just because you don't like what they are doing or saying.

Government telling a private business who they can and can't hire, who they must serve, etc. Is taking away a persons freedom of association, period. There is no arguing it. You have been conditioned to believe that civil-rights are actually the protection of someone elses rights, but it simply isn't.

It is no more a right to not be discriminated based on race or religion as it is age and appearance. It is no more a right to be discriminated, as it is a right to be employed at all, or a right to be given healthcare, or to be given dwelling. These are not rights that were in any way given to you in the constitution of the United States. They are special-priviledges given to you by the state.

Civil Rights legislation is simply unconstitutional, and it actually takes away a persons rights more than it gives any illusion of providing rights. But it is foolish for me to expect you to understand it.



A business is not an artificial entity, I don't know what world you live in. A business is a person, it has even been recognized by the courts as being a person. Because a business does not exist without people. If I start a plumbing business, and then I run that business. The decisions regarding that business are made by me, it is me. A business doesn't really exist, because a business is nothing but people.



Are there no private-sector jobs run by African-Americans? In the absence of civil-rights legislation, do you really think you would be unemployed? Malcom-X originally spoke of black separatism and boycotting of white businesses. If you want my opinion about Civil-rights legislation, it was less to be some noble act, but more to prevent basically a Civil War, and to protect white businesses from being boycotted by blacks.

That is if in the absence of Civil rights legislation that there would be rampant discrimination to begin with. In fact, there is more evidence that discrimination would be less common in the absence of government than in the presence of governmental control. In fact, most southern companies despised the government imposed seggregation policies(such as the busses).

What I'm really say is, humanity changes over time, the problem with most people is they basically have no patience. They are ideologues who try to push their views on the rest of us. But if you push people, many times they won't budge at all.

Personally, I wish there was never a Civil War. In fact, I think black/white relations would be far better if the Civil War never had come. Even if the Civil War had come, I wish Lincoln had not been assissinated. The government despotism over the south that followed the Civil War is what created things like the KKK, and what has hindered black/white relations ever since.

Most of the north held slaves, but gradually abolished the institution. Those slaves became freed men, and then slowly were absorbed into northern societies with almost no hostility. Because their people weren't getting forced. On the other hand, the southern states were forced to abolish slavery, and so they fought against it. The end of the Civil War led to the creation of the KKK, destroyed the southern economy for over 100 years, and it made blacks, especially the wealthy blacks in the south, into the target of this anger.

I find the government of today to actually be the largest cause for racial hostilities. With the special-priviledges of affirmative-action and other protections. To even the disproportionate nature of other programs generally designed to help minorities. To the media's constant talk of racism in lambasting conservatives for their political gain. I believe that if people were just allowed to be themselves, as long as they are not inflicting harm on others. That this whole situation would eventually die down.

If you believe there should be equality and there isn't, then that necessitates the government to become involved and to impose rules that are themselves unequal.


Racism is not good, discrimination is not good. In fact, I get irritated with myself at times because people around me repeat what I say, and I don't like hearing it. But it is the truth.

I have not found many other topics where truth is so hated, than in discussions about discrimination and equality.
Why don't you invest all that time and energy in updating your mindset instead of trying to justify something outdated?

Since you have mentioned the civil rights movement repeatedly, I think its goal is to undo unjust gaps rooted in the past. There is no point in lamenting the slight favoring of minorities at the expense of the incumbents today when you compare what the former had to endure in the past. I think it will take until at least 2050 or maybe even 2100 until the active promotion of minorities, especially blacks, is no longer necessary.
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Old 03-21-2011, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Here
1,684 posts, read 1,426,784 times
Reputation: 1313
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
Where does racism start?

A room full of 3 and 4 year old children and there is no racism.
I think a parent can only do his or her best, and the rest has to do with luck, at least to some degree. I can't remember the Unibomber's name but he had a brother who was 100% normal. So what made the Unibomber a goofball and his brother a sensible family man? It sounds almost too simple, but I think some of it has to do with the crowd a person falls in with when they are young. And that has to do at least to some degree with the person's specific childhood neighborhood. I think another factor is a person's innate ability to think rationally and independently. Some people are followers, some are not. And it probably has to do with brain chemistry too, and feelings of anger or hostility that too easily come to the surface.
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Old 03-21-2011, 02:10 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
19,865 posts, read 18,308,470 times
Reputation: 7955
I know it is not a new idea at all, but I really think racism would be gone within a generation if we were all to go blind
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