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Old 11-10-2011, 07:09 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,454 posts, read 3,993,380 times
Reputation: 4326

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Workin_Hard View Post
Yeah, diversity is fine as long as it's not forced. Promoting through quotas and "sensitivity training" is counterproductive towards any genuine feeling of acceptance.

And how are you going to feel when your son/daughter brings home some diversity, saying "He/she is going to be coming to Thanksgiving dinner"? I suspect parents on all sides of the color line are generally not going to be ok with that. My daughter is still young but the rule will always be 'only white meat at the dinner table' in our house.
I will certainly critique who my daughter decides to date. I will want to know how his grades are, does he play sports, is he clean cut, what are his parents like, does he have a car, a job, who does he hang out with, etc... but I will not critique the color of his skin. That will be the LAST thing on my mind...
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Old 11-10-2011, 07:13 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
61,179 posts, read 31,007,198 times
Reputation: 13031
Quote:
Originally Posted by Workin_Hard View Post
Yeah, diversity is fine as long as it's not forced. Promoting through quotas and "sensitivity training" is counterproductive towards any genuine feeling of acceptance.

And how are you going to feel when your son/daughter brings home some diversity, saying "He/she is going to be coming to Thanksgiving dinner"? I suspect parents on all sides of the color line are generally not going to be ok with that. My daughter is still young but the rule will always be 'only white meat at the dinner table' in our house.


My point of this thread is proven right here in this quoted post!

Racism is put in a childs mind at an early age.
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Old 11-10-2011, 07:13 AM
 
89 posts, read 108,734 times
Reputation: 233
Kids are colour blind and the word 'race' means nothing to them until they learn from adults that race does not mean a contest to see who finishes first.

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Old 11-10-2011, 08:05 AM
 
44,784 posts, read 43,364,849 times
Reputation: 14460
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
Goes right back to bad parenting skills, or the entire lack of...
Very true. My father found out what happened to me and went to the parents. The parents didn't seem to bothered about what their kids did to me. Later on, the same kids vandalized my house via egging and destroying the mailbox. My father went back to the kid's father and the father seemed oblivious. As a side note, that kid ended up in jailed for something related to theft.
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Old 11-10-2011, 08:09 AM
 
Location: Some Beach... Somewhere...
4,579 posts, read 3,852,962 times
Reputation: 4741
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
My point of this thread is proven right here in this quoted post!

Racism is put in a childs mind at an early age.
I don't subscribe to your 'anything goes' view of the world. It's not ok if my child feels like she's gay, or dates outside of our race, or wants to explore the Muslim faith. I would not feel good if after I've paid for her college education she announces she wants to take up basket weaving in a commune in the desert. I would be equally dissapointed if she said she wants to be a nun, or take up pole dancing as a profession.

I expect certain standards of my child. I work hard every day to teach her to make good choices, and it's a constant in our conversations. On interacting with others, I teach her that all people have something to offer, but the degree and type of interaction with others varies. Some types of interactions are just inappropriate.

My values and yours obviously differ. I respect your right to have different opinions and expect the same in return. Your children are your to teach. Mine are mine to teach. I will not tolerate any attempt by others to instill in my child values which are contrary to our family values. And I have the right to, and will, stress these values as an authority to my child until I deliver her to adulthood. What she does after that becomes her right.

I will always love her. If she makes certain decisions, or engages in certain behaviors, that statement may become "I love her but sure do miss her", but that would be by her choice.

Your judgement of my parenting style is misplaced. I do not teach her anything harmful to her, and do not teach her to harm others.

Last edited by Workin_Hard; 11-10-2011 at 08:27 AM..
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Old 11-10-2011, 08:27 AM
 
44,784 posts, read 43,364,849 times
Reputation: 14460
Quote:
Originally Posted by Workin_Hard View Post
Yeah, diversity is fine as long as it's not forced. Promoting through quotas and "sensitivity training" is counterproductive towards any genuine feeling of acceptance.

And how are you going to feel when your son/daughter brings home some diversity, saying "He/she is going to be coming to Thanksgiving dinner"? I suspect parents on all sides of the color line are generally not going to be ok with that. My daughter is still young but the rule will always be 'only white meat at the dinner table' in our house.
If I had a child and the child brought home someone of a difference race or ethnicity, I wouldn't have a problem. I would want the child to be happy, and to have someone that truly loves the child and treats him/her right.
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Old 11-10-2011, 08:28 AM
 
Location: NJ
16,022 posts, read 11,061,949 times
Reputation: 10215
Default Racism and sexism focus misses the bigger picture and keeps arrested thought alive

Racism is a downstream affect of limited thinking. Racism is a single product in a huge product line that gives us invalid conclusions on things such as the tparty being racist or all republicans hating gays or the poor.

The spark that produces racism is alive an well and manifests itself in so many demonstrated ways as seen live on CD.

Sure, the basic foundation that produces perspective, awareness and intelligent decision making starts at home. The politically correct edu system and businesses fail to address the root cause of prejudiced thought and behavior and focus only on race and sex to meet superficially imposed political correctness standards. This does nothing to address the consequences of arrested thinking and provide examples other than racism or sexism. The limited success or failure of a business is greatly impacted by prejudiced decision making that has nothing to do with race or sex.

To focus on racism is to miss the elements that produce racism and other self limiting behaviors that deny personal or business growth.
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Old 11-10-2011, 08:36 AM
 
Location: NJ
16,022 posts, read 11,061,949 times
Reputation: 10215
Default Racism and sexism focus misses the bigger picture and keeps arrested thought alive

Racism is a downstream affect of limited thinking. Racism is a single product in a huge product line that gives us invalid conclusions on things such as the tparty being racist or all republicans hating gays or the poor.

The spark that produces racism is alive an well and manifests itself in so many demonstrated ways as seen live on CD.

Sure, the basic foundation that produces perspective, awareness and intelligent decision making starts at home. The politically correct edu system and businesses fail to address the root cause of prejudiced thought and behavior and focus only on race and sex to meet superficially imposed political correctness standards. This does nothing to address the consequences of arrested thinking and provide examples other than racism or sexism. The limited success or failure of a business is greatly impacted by prejudiced decision making that has nothing to do with race or sex.

To focus on racism is to miss the elements that produce racism and other self limiting behaviors that deny personal or business growth.
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Old 11-10-2011, 09:51 AM
 
14,511 posts, read 7,183,443 times
Reputation: 7480
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXRunner View Post
If I walked into a fast food place and had to sit with one of two groups, one black and the other white, the race wouldn't matter that much to me. If the white group was dressed up as skinheads and the black group as professionals, then I'd probably sit with the black group. On the cable show "What Would You Do?" they tried an experiment where they had a group of black teenagers vandalizing a car and then a white group of teenagers vandalizing a car. They saw who had the police called on more times. Of course the black teenagers did(because that was the whole point of their experiment). The thing I couldn't agree with is that they dressed the black teenagers up as gangsters and the white kids up as preppy college kids. They should have dressed the white kids up as skinheads and the black kids up as preppy college kids and repeated the experiment. My hunch is that they dressed them both the same initially and saw no difference in phone calls, so they had to repeat the experiment but make the black teenagers look like gangsters to get the outcome they wanted.
I remember this program. The part of it that you didn't mention was the most striking to me. The relatives of the actor who played the black thief were in their car sleeping while he was working and they got more calls about his black relatives, who weren't dressed like thugs or stealing anything, just sleeping in their cars, than the white person trying to steal the bike. It was very hilarious to me as a black person, that black people sleeping in a car deserve a call to 911. One of the callers even said that the black people were sleeping in their car "in our park." As if black people weren't allowed in the park. It was very interesting and something that I do notice as a black person but that I feel many who are not black, do not notice.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Workin_Hard View Post
Yeah, diversity is fine as long as it's not forced. Promoting through quotas and "sensitivity training" is counterproductive towards any genuine feeling of acceptance.

And how are you going to feel when your son/daughter brings home some diversity, saying "He/she is going to be coming to Thanksgiving dinner"? I suspect parents on all sides of the color line are generally not going to be ok with that. My daughter is still young but the rule will always be 'only white meat at the dinner table' in our house.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Workin_Hard View Post
I don't subscribe to your 'anything goes' view of the world. It's not ok if my child feels like she's gay, or dates outside of our race, or wants to explore the Muslim faith. I would not feel good if after I've paid for her college education she announces she wants to take up basket weaving in a commune in the desert. I would be equally dissapointed if she said she wants to be a nun, or take up pole dancing as a profession.

I expect certain standards of my child. I work hard every day to teach her to make good choices, and it's a constant in our conversations. On interacting with others, I teach her that all people have something to offer, but the degree and type of interaction with others varies. Some types of interactions are just inappropriate.

My values and yours obviously differ. I respect your right to have different opinions and expect the same in return. Your children are your to teach. Mine are mine to teach. I will not tolerate any attempt by others to instill in my child values which are contrary to our family values. And I have the right to, and will, stress these values as an authority to my child until I deliver her to adulthood. What she does after that becomes her right.

I will always love her. If she makes certain decisions, or engages in certain behaviors, that statement may become "I love her but sure do miss her", but that would be by her choice.

Your judgement of my parenting style is misplaced. I do not teach her anything harmful to her, and do not teach her to harm others.
I don't personally know you or have the knowledge to say you are a racist and really I rarely think anyone is a racist, but if you would not want your daughter to date a black doctor or a successful entreprenuer who is black, then there is something wrong with you. I can kind of understand your homophobia, because homsexuals are scary to a lot of people until they have someone in their family who is gay and people see that gay people are just like anyone else. I can even kind of understand your fear of Islam due to the fear mongering that the religion receives in the media (wanted to note you should actually read the scripture of a religion before forming an opinion about it and many do not do so when it comes to Islam and base their views on the media. My mother is a devout Christian and has read the Koran and is not afraid of Muslims. She likes them and Jews more than other religions since God is primarily the same God in all religions just the prophets are different and a few other things, plus she believes Jesus is her lord an savior like most evangelical Christians). But it is racist IMO to judge someone as not good enough for your daughter to date just because of their ethnicity or race in this country. Regardless of the political terms people use to describe themselves, if a black professional black man from a good home who is successful, a Christian, and not gay wants to date your daughter over a poor, abusive, GED having white man and you chose the white man because he is white, there is something wrong with you and you should really search yourself because even me, someone who believes that true racists are a very small minority, would consider you racist.

I can understand if you would prefer she date someone of your own background but for you to not even take into consideration the characteristics, education, and social standing of the individual would mean you have some racist tendencies.

I have a daughter. I am black. I admit I would rather my daughter date a good black man, but if she comes home with a white man who is smart and funny and who treats her well, then I would have no problem with him. I also would never tell her she better not ever bring home someone who is not black. It is her choice who she dates, not mine. It is her life to live, not mine. She can be with whoever she wants to be with.

But I agree with the sentiments of the OP, that young children are not racists and that prejudice, racism, and stereotyping comes about through their environment and experiences over the course of their lives.
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Old 11-10-2011, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Some Beach... Somewhere...
4,579 posts, read 3,852,962 times
Reputation: 4741
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post
I can even kind of understand your fear of Islam due to the fear mongering that the religion receives in the media (wanted to note you should actually read the scripture of a religion before forming an opinion about it and many do not do so when it comes to Islam and base their views on the media. My mother is a devout Christian and has read the Koran and is not afraid of Muslims. She likes them and Jews more than other religions since God is primarily the same God in all religions just the prophets are different and a few other things, plus she believes Jesus is her lord an savior like most evangelical Christians).
I respect others' right to practice whatever religion they wish to, but in my opinion all religions are merely another mythology to help individuals explain or deal with the unknown. Modern ones are in no way superior to nor more valid than the ancient ones which involved dancing around a fire. I do hope that your mother's belief brings her comfort. Religion, if one believes in such things, should serve man, but man should never serve religion. Islam is another beast altogether. It is a mythology based on the delusional rantings of a 7th century violent pedophile. One of it's primary characterisitics is the repression of woman and their reduction to the level of chattel. Now back to our topic.

Quote:
Having a religion is like having a penis. It's wonderful to have and fine to be proud of. But when you bring it out in the open and start waving it around, that's when the trouble usually starts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post
But it is racist IMO to judge someone as not good enough for your daughter to date just because of their ethnicity or race in this country. Regardless of the political terms people use to describe themselves, if a black professional black man from a good home who is successful, a Christian, and not gay wants to date your daughter over a poor, abusive, GED having white man and you chose the white man because he is white, there is something wrong with you and you should really search yourself because even me, someone who believes that true racists are a very small minority, would consider you racist.

I can understand if you would prefer she date someone of your own background but for you to not even take into consideration the characteristics, education, and social standing of the individual would mean you have some racist tendencies.

I have a daughter. I am black. I admit I would rather my daughter date a good black man, but if she comes home with a white man who is smart and funny and who treats her well, then I would have no problem with him. I also would never tell her she better not ever bring home someone who is not black. It is her choice who she dates, not mine. It is her life to live, not mine. She can be with whoever she wants to be with.
I am teaching my daughter to make good choices and to think before acting, realizing there are consequences to choices and actions. I would hope that she would never consort with "a poor, abusive, GED having white man", knowing this was detrimental to her well being. But if she does, I hope she'll learn from it. (I dated my share of crazy women - with the scars to prove it - and eventually learned to recognize and stay away from them. We live and learn.) I can't imagine the situation ever involving an either/or as you describe.

You state that your preference would be for your daughter to date a black man. By that preference, are you not showing a bit of racism? Would that fine young white man not be a second choice in your view? Acceptable perhaps, but still not the preferred choice?

I should never have to tell my daughter who to not bring home as a prospective "boyfriend". (If she ever brings home a "girlfriend" all bets are off!) I cannot choose who she will date, but while she is under my roof I certainly can choose who she will not date. Ultimately my daughter can date whomever she wants to. If she chooses to, she can bring "home" (to her home, not mine) whomever she chooses. My wish is that she will bring home, both to mine and hers, someone that will always and in all ways be welcome. As long as it is my dinner table, those seated at it will meet my rules as to what role they may be in when seated. Friends of whatever color are always welcome, and the actual picture of gatherings within my home might be a little different than you imagine. Crossing the line into intimacy within or as part of the family is another matter, and that is what is being discussed here.
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