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Old 03-20-2011, 10:30 AM
 
1,234 posts, read 1,029,229 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcopolo View Post
I guess my bias is showing. I know I paid $2,000 in 1985 for a word processor, the leading spreadsheet, and a relational database--all from different companies. The word processor contained innumerable arbitrary key-stroke combinations to get anything done, the spreadsheet required me to learn a macro programming language that took weeks to master, and the database was unusable without a two-day school. NONE of it came from Microsoft; Microsoft did not have credible products in any of those categories in 1985.

Fifteen years later, I bought the same categories of programs from Microsoft for $99. They were more than a thousand times better, required no school, and the programs all talked to each other.

So yeah, a 95% price cut and incomprehensibly massive product improvements made me partisan.

Is Microsoft perfect? No. But they lost far more money from illegal practices of consumers (pirating) than they ever cost consumers with illegal corporate practices.

It should only be so simple.

What could Netscape have done if they had been allowed to flourish?

What message did Microsoft send to the other up and coming business developers? We are big enough to rip you off too?

What message did Microsoft send to Big Business? Theft is profitable?

At minimum, I remember it sending a chilling feeling to the programmers that I knew.

Computer would have developed just fine without Microsoft's illegal monopoly.

What makes you think that their DOS operating system was the best that could have come out of all of this, all these years later?

Alas, we will never really know because Microsoft bought their way out of the mess and only got a slap on the hand.
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Old 03-20-2011, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Exeter, NH
5,199 posts, read 4,204,038 times
Reputation: 5453
Libertarians.

The Republicans support the ultra-rich and Big Government, the Democrats support the ultra-poor and Big Government. In both these parties, the massive tax bills are sent to the working class.
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Old 03-20-2011, 10:37 AM
 
11,961 posts, read 12,429,728 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
I have to agree, Bill Gates did not invent the PC. If he did, then Al Gore single-handedly invented the Internet
This would be the point. Bill Gates has more money than could choke a horse, but can't manage to remunerate those who brought him to the dance save for a select circle of lawyers. That's what's wrong with this bogus brand of capitalism.

The geeks turned on him rightfully. He could stand there with gaggles of lawyers hypocritically petitioning the law for intellectual property rights because he had made a career out of undercutting the intellectual property rights of dozens of others. The real inventors of the PC should at very least have been given a modest royalty %/ shares in microsoft. Board rooms have their own version of an economy that guarantees no matter what they come out smelling like a rose. Even if loyal 20yr employees have to work another 20yrs to cover a ne'er-do-well's golden parachute mistakes & lose their pension in the bargain. That's the trashy corporate class ruling America today. Wharton business school needs ethics imposed.

Put cap limits on income. Once you hit 5 million (pick a number) out to pasture you go. Tax the difference at steep %, or give it away to charity so you can continue working for the love of work. Have a nice retirement at 30. You've earned it. Off you go. Hoarders kill economies and our gini index is banana republic. Hoarders stifle innovation and entrepreneurship because the objective is not excellence. In the bigger picture these people 'managing' large sums are so far removed from the reality of a company they're a whole other predator to contend because they're fixated upon short term personal gains, not long term company health.
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Old 03-20-2011, 10:48 AM
 
11,961 posts, read 12,429,728 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
Do you even know what my political stance is? I have serious doubts that you do
Accusing people who are rightfully outraged over unmittigated avarice (sponsored by malevolent legislation) of being 'communist' is a BS political stance. Quit lying, quit aiding & abetting weasels hawking this privatization (plutocrat) propaganda, and you won't be hearing ire.
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Old 03-20-2011, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Coffee Bean
655 posts, read 1,509,278 times
Reputation: 803
Quote:
Originally Posted by Recovering Democrat View Post

If by "support" you mean, which party is better at giving a crippled man who can't fish for himself a fish so that he won't starve to death, then it's the Democrats.

If by "support" you mean, which party is better at teaching a man a fish so that he can pay off his indentured servitude to the Fish Lord, who's (Republican) family owns the entire fishing village, then it's the Republicans.
A few minor edits. Otherwise - dead on.
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Old 03-20-2011, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Kenmore, WA
7,359 posts, read 6,214,097 times
Reputation: 10577
At this point in time, I don't think either party are thinking about the people at all, but I do believe that the GOP does more harm than the Dems.
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Old 03-20-2011, 11:13 AM
 
Location: US
3,071 posts, read 3,334,721 times
Reputation: 1619
I could be wrong, but somehow, despite the means through which it was received--be it hard work, inheritance or even winning the lottery--I wonder if those herein advocating wealth redistribution would be singing a different tune if they were sitting on $5 + million (one of the figures I saw in a message as being the limit someone could have). I have a feeling they wouldn't even be bothering to participate in this forum. They'd be traveling, sailing, whatever.

I also wonder, if they had $10 million for example, they'd happily hand over the other $5 million to the Government, again using the cap I saw in one of the messages. Let's be intellectually honest with each other now.
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Old 03-20-2011, 11:16 AM
 
Location: it depends
6,074 posts, read 5,124,447 times
Reputation: 5767
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtimer2 View Post
It should only be so simple.

What could Netscape have done if they had been allowed to flourish?

What message did Microsoft send to the other up and coming business developers? We are big enough to rip you off too?

What message did Microsoft send to Big Business? Theft is profitable?

At minimum, I remember it sending a chilling feeling to the programmers that I knew.

Computer would have developed just fine without Microsoft's illegal monopoly.

What makes you think that their DOS operating system was the best that could have come out of all of this, all these years later?

Alas, we will never really know because Microsoft bought their way out of the mess and only got a slap on the hand.
Help me out here. How many operating systems were there before IBM adopted DOS? Every one of them had a leg up on DOS. I'm a user, not an info tech guy, so the only one I remember is CP/M. Microsoft did not start out with any market power, or any monopoly. Millions of people voted with their wallets, and elected them king.

Whatever happened to Lotus 1-2-3? It had a commanding, crushing share of the spreadsheet market. Nobody held a gun to my head when I replaced Lotus with Excel.

Don't you think that Microsoft had all kinds of entrenched organizations trying to stomp it to death when it was young?

I am not endorsing illegal behavior on the part of large business. I am saying that a nuanced understanding requires one to consider the vast progress and benefits we have gained from the existence of large business.
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Old 03-20-2011, 11:30 AM
 
Location: US
3,071 posts, read 3,334,721 times
Reputation: 1619
Using your example, for example, if you took Oprah Winfrey's money away from her, and allowed her to maintain only $5 million, she would not have been able to build the girl's school in Africa. Also, JC Penney lived on 10% of his income, and gave the other 90% away to charity. As much as I disagree with Rosie O'Donnell, she gives to and is involved with many, many charities, one of which benefits my own child. Donald Trump, and, yes, Bill Gates, Sandra Bullock--many choose the charities to which to donate their time and money. Why would we want to give that choice to the Government to decide what's best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
Put cap limits on income. Once you hit 5 million (pick a number) out to pasture you go. Tax the difference at steep %, or give it away to charity so you can continue working for the love of work. Have a nice retirement at 30. You've earned it. Off you go. Hoarders kill economies and our gini index is banana republic. Hoarders stifle innovation and entrepreneurship because the objective is not excellence. In the bigger picture these people 'managing' large sums are so far removed from the reality of a company they're a whole other predator to contend because they're fixated upon short term personal gains, not long term company health.
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Old 03-20-2011, 11:42 AM
 
1,234 posts, read 1,029,229 times
Reputation: 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcopolo View Post
Help me out here. How many operating systems were there before IBM adopted DOS? Every one of them had a leg up on DOS. I'm a user, not an info tech guy, so the only one I remember is CP/M. Microsoft did not start out with any market power, or any monopoly. Millions of people voted with their wallets, and elected them king.

Whatever happened to Lotus 1-2-3? It had a commanding, crushing share of the spreadsheet market. Nobody held a gun to my head when I replaced Lotus with Excel.

Don't you think that Microsoft had all kinds of entrenched organizations trying to stomp it to death when it was young?

I am not endorsing illegal behavior on the part of large business. I am saying that a nuanced understanding requires one to consider the vast progress and benefits we have gained from the existence of large business.
I have no problem with a business being large, unless it is a monopoly in fact, or in practice... so long as their conduct is legal and does not unfairly destroy or interfere with competition.
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