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If we change the definition of what a "human" is...the definition of what you are changes.
I don't know how else I can explain it. It seems pretty simple.
Ok, let's assume for the sake of argument that permitting gay marriage "changes the definition of marriage."
Now can you explain how that change would AFFECT your marriage?
You can't.
Because it doesn't. Period. It affects how you might THINK about your marriage, but again, that's your personal opinion - that does not get the protection of the law where that opinion infringes on the rights of others.
Why not just admit it? Why is it so hard fir you guys?
If we change the definition of what a "human" is...the definition of what you are changes.
I don't know how else I can explain it. It seems pretty simple.
How does it actually change your marriage? How does it actually change anything?
More specifically, how does it harm your marriage? How does it harm you personally? How does it harm your spouse? How does it harm your children (if you have any)? How does it harm anybody?
How does "changing the definition of marriage" (a statement I don't agree with) manifest in your life?
How does denying me equal civil rights prevent a harm?
If we change the definition of what a "human" is...the definition of what you are changes.
I don't know how else I can explain it. It seems pretty simple.
If the definition of a "human" changes, it does not actually change who I am, but it does change what attributes are associated with being a human. Thing is, the definition of "human" can and has changed. Did you know that up until the mid 1850's or so, black slaves were not considered to fall under the definition of "human"?
The legal definition of "human" in America was changed to include black persons. Did that change what a "white" human was?
If it did not, then is it not logical to assume that the same would be true of changing the legal definition of "marriage" to include same-sex couples?
I'm just trying to understand how you can hold a position that I am not discriminated against when I clearly am. I pointed out 2 very simple, very clear examples of discrimination against homosexuals in the law and how that discrimination is manifested in the actual lives of homosexuals. I just chose 2 - I could do hundreds more. It seems very intellectually dishonest to hold a position that states homosexuals shouldn't be discriminated against while then claiming that things are fine the way they are because homosexuals are not discriminated against. It just doesn't make any sense to me. It defies logic and reality.
I'd have much more respect if you'd just be honest and admit that our laws do discriminate against homosexuals and then make your case for why this is a good thing, why it should not be changed, and how it is consistent with our Constitutional principles. At least then we could have a debate about the issues.
Are single people discriminated against because their girlfriend/boyfriend do not get military benefits. Are single people discriminated against because they can't obtain a visa for someone they love and want to live with them in the U.S.?
A single person could argue that how are they not discrimiated against, that marriage in itself is giving benefits that others (the poor singles) do not have access to. Is it their fault that they have not paired up yet? What if they never find love and never marry? Then their entire lifes they have (in your view) been discriminated against because they did not get to marry and avail themselves to all the benefits of this institution.
I agree. There is not comparison between giving ones opinion that homosexuality is a mental discorder and calling someone a homophobe.
One is an opinion (whether acceptable to delicate ears or not) and one is a direct personal attack which according to TOS is not tolerated.
In the same way that many posters offer negative and offensive opinions to Christians (and given a wide berth on this forum) but it is not a direct personal attack.
And it is true that until 1973 homosexuality was considered a mental disorder. This is a fact.
Are you telling me that if a member of C-D were to say to me that I suffer from a mental disorder is okay?
Are single people discriminated against because their girlfriend/boyfriend do not get military benefits. Are single people discriminated against because they can't obtain a visa for someone they love and want to live with them in the U.S.?
A single person could argue that how are they not discrimiated against, that marriage in itself is giving benefits that others (the poor singles) do not have access to. Is it their fault that they have not paired up yet? What if they never find love and never marry? Then their entire lifes they have (in your view) been discriminated against because they did not get to marry and avail themselves to all the benefits of this institution.
No, single people are not discriminated against, they have the option of getting married...I do not.
Are single people discriminated against because their girlfriend/boyfriend do not get military benefits. Are single people discriminated against because they can't obtain a visa for someone they love and want to live with them in the U.S.?
A single person could argue that how are they not discrimiated against, that marriage in itself is giving benefits that others (the poor singles) do not have access to. Is it their fault that they have not paired up yet? What if they never find love and never marry? Then their entire lifes they have (in your view) been discriminated against because they did not get to marry and avail themselves to all the benefits of this institution.
No they're not being discriminated against (as long as they are heterosexual). They have access to those civil rights - that's what the law requires. As a homosexual, I do not have access to those civil rights. Any given American avails him or herself to very, very few of the civil rights available to him or her. Because someone doesn't take advantage of them doesn't mean he or she is being discriminated against. If he or she is banning from accessing those civil rights - then there is discrimination.
I have a good friend who has lived in Manhattan his whole life. He's never had a driver's license. Does this make him the victim of invidious discrimination? (of course not)
Again though, you're just deflecting. Do you still hold that homosexuals are not discriminated against and that I, as a homosexual, have access to all the same civil rights you do?
No they're not being discriminated against (as long as they are heterosexual). They have access to those civil rights - that's what the law requires. As a homosexual, I do not have access to those civil rights. Any given American avails him or herself to very, very few of the civil rights available to him or her. Because someone doesn't take advantage of them doesn't mean he or she is being discriminated against. If he or she is banning from accessing those civil rights - then there is discrimination.
I have a good friend who has lived in Manhattan his whole life. He's never had a driver's license. Does this make him the victim of discrimination? (of course not)
Again though, you're just deflecting. Do you still hold that homosexuals are not discriminated against and that I, as a homosexual, have access to all the same civil rights you do?
No. I am not just deflecting. I do not believe that homosexuals are discriminated against. Period. Yes, I believe that you have access to all the same civil rights that I do.
I'm sorry this is not want you want to hear.
I do see your POV but I do not agree with it.
BTW, I think eventually you are going to win. Yes I do. That's correct. I think "my side" will lose. I think at some point homosexuals in the U.S. will be allowed to marry. I disagree with it but I will accept it.
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