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I understand the worries of pregnancy....heck I have even been there in the waiting room afterward.
I don't agree with it....she had the right....it wasn't mine...I understand the consequences of sex.....pill, abortions, contraceptives.....ect.
Since you think I don't have a clue to the other side how would me telling you I think rape has a different circumstance than the average couple who accidentally had a kid.
So whats so hard....why is it so hard to understand when you lay down with someone contraceptives or not you can still be pregnant....is that not also the epitome of selfishness? Why do we look for bandaids for problems instead of solving the root cause.....i.e.. because I can't keep my genitals in check I need to figure out a way around that.
Am I wrong for thinking people can do it?
Should I just assume most of the women that end up "stuck" just don't have a clue and apparently no self will?
I was assuming they were smart am I wrong?
Yes, John. The world would be a much better place to outlaw things like Viagra.
We should invent drugs that stifle the sexual impulse.
Prisons would certainly be nicer places, and schools. You could trust your daughters and sons when they go on dates.
Or, are you telling me that Viagra is only used inside marriages where children are wanted?
Much of that stuff is used for 'flings'.
So, instead of being against choice, why not chemically program people up front to totally avoid the situation?
If people have so much problem throughout history, containing their desires, I do not think any of our rants will stop them.
So the logical alternative is to remove the desire in the first place.
We are barking up the wrong tree here.
We should be, instead of punishing women, protesting to drug companies to invent something that will stop sex.
So many women would find that handy in keeping their men in check.
Oh, would that be taking away their freedom of choice?
A small thing for a man, if it prevented unwanted births, n'est pas?
That was probably the weakest arguement I have ever seen you present. You basically in short agreed with me....people are to weak willed to keep the sexual organs in check.
Yeah...they are too weak-willed to overcome their addiction to water either. Why, every time you turn around, there's somebody hydrating. Right there in public, mind you!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475
You ever wonder why with such a hard push from folks like you all for pro abortion and pro contraceptives your teen pregnancies still rise every year per capita?
Actually, no, not until just lately. A signficant reason for that has been that teen pregnancy rates in the US fell every year between 1992 and 2005 according to the CDC. 2006 saw an increase. Most people have pointed to the increasing prevalence of abstinence-only sex ed as having been one factor in reversing what had been a decade-and-a-half-long trend. Turns out that contraceptives and honest information are more effective in helping to control teen pregnancy than silliness and sermons are. Who would have thought that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475
Are you guys losing the battle?
We were actually doing pretty well until a few of you guys managed to get elected/appointed/whatever into decision-making positions. Just add another line to the List of Disgrace and Failure, I guess...
Since you think I don't have a clue to the other side how would me telling you I think rape has a different circumstance than the average couple who accidentally had a kid.
That doesn't mean I'm pro choice/abortion.
Where did I ever say you don't have a clue? I was simply questioning your statement that you "see both sides clear as day." I would guess people rarely, if ever, truly understand both sides of anything this important.
That's all. No need to fuel the fire! It's hot enough already.
When a woman is pregnant with a child she did not plan for she has no good choices, just the lesser of two evils. Only she can judge her place in life, her sense of responsibility,and what she thinks of the fetus. She must think of how this thing will affect her psychologically. To me at this point in time, I would certainly think aborting it is the way to go.
But I understand people may have different opinions.
There is so much suffering all over the world. I think of the poor people in Darfur and India and China. There are people starving and killing each other all over the globe - people just as innocent as a fetus, in my opinion. We, in our part of the world just tune in the news and turn it off. We hear of all this slaughter of adults and children alike, the rape, and utter our tsk-tsk and just turn the channel. Why in all that is considered holy can we be so blaze about all the injustice in the world to adults, entire families, and trouble ourselves over a group of cells that has not yet found its identity as a being?
We also slaughter animals for food daily with hardly a second thought.
Truly, I believe that much of our reverence of life is a construct to allow our 'special' society to flow more smoothly. When push comes to shove, as a people, we do tolerate death and even mete it out, often to the innocent as well as the guilty. They are all someone's children. They are all our children. Our world, our very God, has slaughtered, has hated on the basis of race, has and still does enslave people. He has told us we are better than the 'other' and called them enemy and turned His back on them. How can we expect not to do likewise?
My thought is to put aside all of the philosophic and religious dogma I have been fed and to interface with reality. With nature.
Do I have a religion, not really. But I believe all life survives forever. I believe there are natural forces, many of which we do not understand.
Nature does not seem to fret over death. It is expected.
So I don't have much regard as to whether the cells are called potentially human or actually human.
I do not relate to it. I do not feel bonded to it any more than I would to a wart.
I object to suffering. Strongly object. But I do not believe that all death entails suffering. Some people come close, and only feel pain when they awake and the healing process begins. I do not feel that abortion is causing suffering. I think we must have a sense of self to suffer.
Does a chicken egg suffer as we fry it?
This talk may be upsetting, but it is the truth. I try to face reality without all the propaganda we are fed, much of which has come from our distant pass. I think it is foolish to allow thinking from our great antecedants dictate our present actions.
Had I a daughter or a friend or a relative, I would feel bonded to them, they have meaning to me, and if they needed it, I would definitely encourage them to remove the fetus. How could I possibly react to the fetus as I do to them?
To me, having a child is a blessing when you are prepared for it, when you are willing to pledge your life for the sake of the little one. I know of children who were reared by women who resented the theft of their planned lives, their hopes and ambitions, their future, because of the intrusion of an infant. THe kids suffered because of it.
This is a situation peculiar to each individual woman, to my mind. Her place in her own life, and what she imagines her future will be like. We each are entitled to our own construct of what life and its value is. This is what living in a democratic society allows for. We are responsible for our own decisions. If we make mistakes we correct our thinking and move on.
To me, allowing a child to develop when you are not prepared for it is a high point of selfishness and is the cause of many malfunctioning relationships.
Again, I agree with many of your thoughts. Fundamentally, i am pro-choice, but only during the 1st trimester, unless there is a threat to the mother's health or the baby is developing abnormally. That is my line in the sand. And we all need to draw our own lines in the sand without judging others too harshly. Because really, who knows who is right? I can't profess too.
I can tell you though, that my views continue to change on this subject the older I get. I'm middle-aged right now and I spend as much time looking back as I do forward. I think that in the end, who we are is defined by a handful of defining moments... A pregnancy, planned or unplanned is one of those kind of moments.
No matter how disconnected a women may feel with her potential child at the time of conception, and no matter how relieved she may feel after a terminated pregnancy, eventually she will look back on her decision with some degree of uncertainty. She may continue to feel that she made the right decision, but there will always be a lingering feeling of loss for what might have been. No one walks away from an abortion completely unscathed unless they are a sociopath.
I'm not a religious person either. I don't have any animosity toward organized religion, it's just not for me. So I'm not looking at this from that viewpoint at all. But I try to base major life decisions on the premise of "do nobody harm" whenever possible and I try to remember that my hopes and plans are not paramount to anyone else's. If I can just stick to that, I'll be OK.
Maybe I have managed to come off as holier than thou and appear as if I am condescending toward women who choose abortion. I am not though. I don't know enough to be condescending and in some circumstances abortion does appear to be the right thing to do.
I stated that a woman should consider abortion if a fetus is developing abnormally. From my frame of reference, it can be an act of kindness if the abnormalities are severe. I worked in a large state hospital with people who had developmental disabilities I could never have imagined. No one should have to live that way. It was literally a chamber from hell.
I am not blind to the horrors people face around the world. I hear where you're coming from with that. Some people should be held criminally responsible for bringing a child into situations that no child has a hope of surviving physically and psychologically. That's really sad. But abortion is really sad too. An embryo is more than just a mass of cells. That would be a tumor. It is the end of a POTENTIAL life that under different circumstances could have brought great joy.
Yes, John. The world would be a much better place to outlaw things like Viagra.
We should invent drugs that stifle the sexual impulse.
Prisons would certainly be nicer places, and schools. You could trust your daughters and sons when they go on dates.
Or, are you telling me that Viagra is only used inside marriages where children are wanted?
Much of that stuff is used for 'flings'.
So, instead of being against choice, why not chemically program people up front to totally avoid the situation?
If people have so much problem throughout history, containing their desires, I do not think any of our rants will stop them.
So the logical alternative is to remove the desire in the first place.
We are barking up the wrong tree here.
We should be, instead of punishing women, protesting to drug companies to invent something that will stop sex.
So many women would find that handy in keeping their men in check.
Oh, would that be taking away their freedom of choice?
A small thing for a man, if it prevented unwanted births, n'est pas?
Sounds like there is something a little deeper there....
Yeah...they are too weak-willed to overcome their addiction to water either. Why, every time you turn around, there's somebody hydrating. Right there in public, mind you!
Actually, no, not until just lately. A signficant reason for that has been that teen pregnancy rates in the US fell every year between 1992 and 2005 according to the CDC. 2006 saw an increase. Most people have pointed to the increasing prevalence of abstinence-only sex ed as having been one factor in reversing what had been a decade-and-a-half-long trend. Turns out that contraceptives and honest information are more effective in helping to control teen pregnancy than silliness and sermons are. Who would have thought that?
We were actually doing pretty well until a few of you guys managed to get elected/appointed/whatever into decision-making positions. Just add another line to the List of Disgrace and Failure, I guess...
Your arguement is weak......so as the drugs get more plentiful and more advertised and stronger or more effective....somehow teen pregnancies are increasing....you can't watch a TV show without getting pushed some sex aid in the commercials...
Sounds like there is something a little deeper there....
You'd like China much better I think.
Isn't there any way that you can respond without mischaracterizing statements that you disagree with.
Your personal attacks are tedious and unnecessary.
Can't address someone's opinion, so you try to offend them?
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