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I would hope that this kind of reaction shouts loud and clear of the very low-level intelligence these idiots rioting over the burning of a book, whether an excuse for the violence or not, and would alert everyone just what kind of people are trying to take over the world and kill everyone who doesn't agree with them. IMHO, this clearly and strongly points out the difference between 3rd-world-country mentality of religious fanatics and our own American Society.
Many people in Third World countries such as Afghanistan are poorly educated and driven by emotion (that includes religious fanaticism) instead of rationality. Educated people from Western countries really should be aware of the consequences of their actions. Calling them "idiots", etc. isn't going to change the way they are. I said in an earlier post......if anyone wants to express their hatred of Islam by burning a Koran, they should do it privately and not announce it to the world.
That is comparing two completely different things.
He did not only burn "his own Koran". It was clear that he was waging unfair ideological war against an entire religion for the purpose of fanning the flames of hatred. If the guy had any balls he would burn the Koran in an Islamic country instead of from the safety of his own environment. If he was actually victimized you might have a comparison.
Rapists do it because of power issues not because the woman dresses "provocatively". But if a woman dresses provocatively in the presence of a known rapist or unsafe area it would definitely be pretty stupid. You can't blame the victim, but you can definitely say that she made poor judgment. Furthermore, a rapist would rape regardless of what the woman is wearing, how she was acting, what she looks like, etc. If people tried to blame the UN victims for the terrorist actions that would be akin to blaming a rape victim. Nobody is blaming the UN victims.
Make no mistake, there is no excuse for terrorism. But there is also no excuse for hating on an entire religion. That guy is not innocent.
A religion is nothing more than an ideology. That ideology does not deserve inherent protection. If an ideology cannot withstand public opinion well tough on that ideology and its adherents. It is utterly disgusting to compare an act of brutal rape with the burning of a book filled with the rantings of a 6th century pedophile.
Thank god the pastor does not live in an Islamic society. And frankly thank god most of the rest of us do not either. Thank god we live in a society where separation of church and state exists, where a woman's testimony is accounted as equal to a man's in a court of law and where if we want to burn a koran we can darned well burn a koran.
Many people in Third World countries such as Afghanistan are poorly educated and driven by emotion (that includes religious fanaticism) instead of rationality. Educated people from Western countries really should be aware of the consequences of their actions. Calling them "idiots", etc. isn't going to change the way they are. I said in an earlier post......if anyone wants to express their hatred of Islam by burning a Koran, they should do it privately and not announce it to the world.
The way to educate someone is not to give into their ignorance. If such people wish to function as equals in the world they need to act like equals. Part of that understanding is that your particular religion or ideology is not deemed off limits from criticism.
Why should the rest of us have to give up some of our freedoms merely to accommodate the needs of very stupid people?
That is comparing two completely different things.
I've simply applied your fallacious thinking to the subject of rape to demonstrate that it doesn't stand up to logical stress.
Quote:
Originally Posted by miyu
He did not only burn "his own Koran". It was clear that he was waging unfair ideological war against an entire religion for the purpose of fanning the flames of hatred.
Burning a book is "unfair ideological war"? That's how you characterize a match between one guy in Gainsville, FL vs. 1.5 Billion Muslims?
Quote:
Originally Posted by miyu
If the guy had any balls he would burn the Koran in an Islamic country instead of from the safety of his own environment. If he was actually victimized you might have a comparison.
Your statement above demonstrates exactly why extreme Islamists deserve to be insulted. You know one can burn a Bible in front of a church, a rainbow flag at a gay pride parade or a Packers jersey in Green Bay without fear of having your entire family torched. For some reason, their moon god is too thin skinned to allow such things to happen without deadly retribution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by miyu
Rapists do it because of power issues not because the woman dresses "provocatively".
And Islamists don't murder because of power issues?
Quote:
Originally Posted by miyu
Furthermore, a rapist would rape regardless of what the woman is wearing, how she was acting, what she looks like, etc.
The comparison holds. An Islamist will kill the kuffar for any perceived insult to Islam, including burning a Koran, not wearing a veil, or simply not being a Muslim.
Quote:
Originally Posted by miyu
Make no mistake, there is no excuse for terrorism. But there is also no excuse for hating on an entire religion. That guy is not innocent.
On that point we're agreed. And I'm sure nearly every Egyptian Copt, Pakistani Catholic and Iranian Baha'i would also concur. Nobody's innocent, but everyone is entitled to demonstrate an opinion without being beheaded. If you want to pick at the problem of "unfair ideological war", this pastor is insignificant. Start with the jealous, retrograde Islamists you regard with such pity.
The way to educate someone is not to give into their ignorance. If such people wish to function as equals in the world they need to act like equals. Part of that understanding is that your particular religion or ideology is not deemed off limits from criticism.
Why should the rest of us have to give up some of our freedoms merely to accommodate the needs of very stupid people?
No one said anything about giving up freedom. I just said that people should be aware that their actions can have far-reaching and unpleasant consequences so a little prudence is a good thing. (Like a woman not walking down a dark alleyway in a bad part of town at midnight.) Speaking critically of a religion is one thing and people do it all the time. Burning a Koran and announcing it to the world was asking for trouble, as we cannot control the reactions of other people. I have no doubt that the pastor knew full well that burning a Koran and then announcing it publicly on the internet would inflame passions from certain sectors of the Islamic world. Announcing it as he did was asking for trouble. We are not dealing with rational people.
Besides, what's wrong with burning the Koran privately and keeping it private?
Announcing it as he did was asking for trouble. We are not dealing with rational people.
Besides, what's wrong with burning the Koran privately and keeping it private?
Indeed. And why couldn't that pesky troublemaker Martin Luther simply kept is ideas private instead of nailing them on the door of Worms Cathedral? He wasn't dealing with rational people either.
The world would be a more peaceful place if everyone just kept their mouths shut.
Many people in Third World countries such as Afghanistan are poorly educated and driven by emotion (that includes religious fanaticism) instead of rationality. Educated people from Western countries really should be aware of the consequences of their actions. Calling them "idiots", etc. isn't going to change the way they are. I said in an earlier post......if anyone wants to express their hatred of Islam by burning a Koran, they should do it privately and not announce it to the world.
well we would build then schools but they keep killing UN personal doing just that so what do you want us to do if they go around shooting and attacking UN led missions that are handing out food and giving basic medical aid.
they attack the pepole trying to help them but they would not try that with ISAF/NATO forces because they know we will fight back
No one said anything about giving up freedom. I just said that people should be aware that their actions can have far-reaching and unpleasant consequences so a little prudence is a good thing. (Like a woman not walking down a dark alleyway in a bad part of town at midnight.) Speaking critically of a religion is one thing and people do it all the time. Burning a Koran and announcing it to the world was asking for trouble, as we cannot control the reactions of other people. I have no doubt that the pastor knew full well that burning a Koran and then announcing it publicly on the internet would inflame passions from certain sectors of the Islamic world. Announcing it as he did was asking for trouble. We are not dealing with rational people.
Besides, what's wrong with burning the Koran privately and keeping it private?
When you tell someone they can't express contempt for an ideology you most certainly are curtailing their freedoms. Muslims have no right to argue that they're simply irrational freaks and that we either respect them or they will kill people. That's utterly unacceptable behavior.
Indeed. And why couldn't that pesky troublemaker Martin Luther simply kept is ideas private instead of nailing them on the door of Worms Cathedral? He wasn't dealing with rational people either.
The world would be a more peaceful place if everyone just kept their mouths shut.
Bad analogy. Martin Luther's beef with the Catholic Church was theological and he was attempting to correct the abuses of his time. What he did was totally different from what this no-name pastor, whose motive was self-aggrandizement, did.
I guess I'm the only one posting on this thread that sees the danger and irresponsibility of deliberately stirring up a hornets nest.
When you tell someone they can't express contempt for an ideology you most certainly are curtailing their freedoms. Muslims have no right to argue that they're simply irrational freaks and that we either respect them or they will kill people. That's utterly unacceptable behavior.
Show me where did I say that people cannot express contempt for an ideology. What I said was that to do so in the manner he chose was irresponsible and that the far-reaching consequences of his action have led to the deaths of innocent people. Pastor what's-his-name is no better than the people he stirred up to violence.
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