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I wonder how they got 3-4 million non-slave owning men to fight for slaves? Too bad the Confederates were fighting for states rights. It got pretty difficult to wage war with a weak central government.
What is confusing is when Union troops captured escaped slaves, they deemed them as property and confiscated them. It seems that was one of the North's arguments in the run up to conflict that slaves were not property. If the South had won the war then Slavery would have been the sole reason for the war.
Slavery was over before the war was over . The price of Slaves during the war was about $75.00 down from a $800-1200 . Smart Slave owners were shifting their wealth out of Slaves. IMO the war was the end result of a social revolution in the US brought on by many factors out the control of any one. Slavery was hard to dismantle, but there was a eminent shift of wealth and power in the US and that's what men fight in wars for.
actually, if you read a bit further in your hippy anti-war link...
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the ratifications of the Constitution by New York, Virginia, and Rhode Island were not given conditionally upon those states being granted the right to secede by the other states. Had that been the case, the ratifications would have been invalid. Ratifications of the Constitution had to be unconditional.
how did Bush get the working poor to fight his middle east OIL WARS? propaganda.
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Originally Posted by thriftylefty
I wonder how they got 3-4 million non-slave owning men to fight for slaves? Too bad the Confederates were fighting for states rights. It got pretty difficult to wage war with a weak central government.
What is confusing is when Union troops captured escaped slaves, they deemed them as property and confiscated them. It seems that was one of the North's arguments in the run up to conflict that slaves were not property. If the South had won the war then Slavery would have been the sole reason for the war.
Slavery was over before the war was over . The price of Slaves during the war was about $75.00 down from a $800-1200 . Smart Slave owners were shifting their wealth out of Slaves. IMO the war was the end result of a social revolution in the US brought on by many factors out the control of any one. Slavery was hard to dismantle, but there was a eminent shift of wealth and power in the US and that's what men fight in wars for.
I just don't see slavery dying out on it's own in the south.
What ever the reasons why slavery was alive and well in the south were the same reasons it was a live and well in Brazil, or anyother country at almost any time... among others... cheap labor..
so yes it would have died out eventually.. like it did everywhere else...
So forget about this "what if the South won"??
Let us consider what if there had NEVER been a Civil war..
Had America been able to avoid a civil war all together and accomplish some of the things, that were acconplished during the civil war, politically..
The nullification and interposition arguments have quite clearly been disposed of, and the Supremacy Clause demonstrates that the states are subordinate to the national government.
No, it doesn't. The Supremecy Clause states but the truism that the soverign states are subordinate to the central government only in those areas where the central government is delegated specific and limited powers. The Confederate Constitution contained the same supremacy clause. Word for word.
I appreciate that you're trying to be reasonable here, but there are a couple of facts that demonstrate was not just an important issue, but the issue.
First is the statements of the states in their decisions to secede, which make clear beyond any misunderstanding that what they were motivated by was the desire to maintain their fellow humans in slavery.
Of the 11 states, only four specifically mentioned slavery. The other 7 (nine if one counts Missouri and Kentucky as part of the Confederacy) did not refer to it (slavery) at all in their documents of secession. And even of those four, they did not just pluck it out of the air, but made the correct observtion it was bound up in other further reaching issues. In the singular, Georgia spoke of unfair taxation on the South, and Texas spoke of the failure of the federal government to honor certain terms of the annexation treaty.
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Second is the fact that there had just been a huge tariff dispute about thirty years earlier, with some of the same states involved, and even South Carolina didn't secede; no other states even came close.
It remained an issue, however. Because South Carolina "lost" on that particular consideration, didn't make it go away or negate its importance. The South furnished something like 75% of the tax revenue to the federal government...yet got precious little back due to the control of northern interests in the House.
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Third is the fact that the only state's right they were concerned about was the right to own slaves. They were not at all interested, for instance, in preserving the rights of northern states to prohibit slavery within their borders or to refuse to return escaped slaves.
There is really no arguing with such an abreviated and self-moralistic vision of what caused the War Between the States and the secession of the Southern states. Are you aware that many northern states actually banned black residency? Here is a great one for your edification (on not only slavery but discrimination):
I'll finally point out that there is not a "large" secessionist group in Vermont. It's decidedly a fringe group, large only in their own distorted view. I will grant you, though, that they might have more success in attracting members if they weren't so fond of racist secessionist groups in the south.
*whew* You really hate the South, don't you? Oh well... Not that it matters much, far as that goes, it is just those of your ilk ignore the dirt in your own living room...both historically and today.
again it is a matter of perspective. everyone had their own reasons for the war, it just depended on where you stood and who you believed.
for the WEALTHY interests in the south it was about protecting their financial interests involved in slavery. They are the ones that lead the rebellion.
for the working poor in the south it was about what the wealthy southerns told them, "states' rights" or whatever nonsense they could sell the people. They were sucked in with the anti union propaganda of the slaveholders.
for the WEALTHY interests in the north it was about protecting their own financial interest. If the country was split they would lose control of some of their control over their resources.
and for the working poor it was about selling "anti-rebellion" patriotic propaganda the wealthy interests feed them.
Protecting slavery was the root cause of the war but it gets muddied up with individual agendas and interests.
This is funny. You and Jack McRacist are two peas in a pod.
For everyone in the South, it was about providing close to 78% of all federal revenue. For the north, it was about the possible loss of all that revenue. How else would they build their railroads??? What would they ship overseas if not cotton or tobacco?
But hey, you yankees mythologists continue to retell and believe your fairy tales. America will believe you. They have believed that one guy could fix all their messes for many years now. Each time, America has been let down and left worse off. You gots your yankee nation, and look at all it has done. Just don't try to sell your snake oil to me. I know what you are.
I just don't see slavery dying out on it's own in the south. .
There is no question that it would have died out. It's only a question of when.
Political pressure from all over the world would have eventually stopped slavery, and the advent of mechanical farming implements would have certainly had an impact.
I just think killing 800,000 Americans and destroying a huge portion of the infrastructure was way too premature. If it were me, I would have spent a lot more political energy trying to bring about a gradual elimination of slavery.
Of the 11 states, only four specifically mentioned slavery. The other 7 (nine if one counts Missouri and Kentucky as part of the Confederacy) did not refer to it (slavery) at all in their documents of secession. And even of those four, they did not just pluck it out of the air, but made the correct observtion it was bound up in other further reaching issues. In the singular, Georgia spoke of unfair taxation on the South, and Texas spoke of the failure of the federal government to honor certain terms of the annexation treaty.
It remained an issue, however. Because South Carolina "lost" on that particular consideration, didn't make it go away or negate its importance. The South furnished something like 75% of the tax revenue to the federal government...yet got precious little back due to the control of northern interests in the House.
There is really no arguing with such an abreviated and self-moralistic vision of what caused the War Between the States and the secession of the Southern states. Are you aware that many northern states actually banned black residency? Here is a great one for your edification (on not only slavery but discrimination):
*whew* You really hate the South, don't you? Oh well... Not that it matters much, far as that goes, it is just those of your ilk ignore the dirt in your own living room...both historically and today.
You are correct. It was not a situation where the North held higher moral values. It was economics. The North did not need slaves.
But the North was just as guilty as the South. They embraced slavery for about 200 years. It is unfortunate that our history books overlook these facts.
well as I said before,had the south won the war thennot much would have changed even though slavey didnot exist anymore.
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Not that it matters much, far as that goes, it is just those of your ilk ignore the dirt in your own living room...both historically and today.
well as I said before,had the south won the war thennot much would have changed even though slavey didnot exist anymore.