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Old 04-23-2011, 10:43 AM
 
3,886 posts, read 10,064,252 times
Reputation: 1486

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
Does danger not exist? Or does it merely disappear for you, in your own mind, if you fail to acknowledge it through preparation?

Do you buckle your children into the car with safety belts? Why do you bother unless you plan on instigating a car accident? Your argument about fear and those who carry firearms for protection indeed follows into the same category of being prepared on the outside chance something beyond your control or ability to predict of your control will happen that might harm them.

You homeschool. Why? What do you fear from the public schools? From what are you trying to protect your children? Do you fight against those who would attempt through legislation to outlaw homeschooling? Or, if you are told you will no longer have a choice and will be charged as a criminal if you continue to homeschool will you just roll over and accept that from your local/state or federal government?

Practice what you preach dear. It is you who started this thread and have made all kinds of false claims, accusations and projections about those who own and carry firearms. Or, is bashing and blathering only from those who do not ascribe to your way of thinking?

The gun banning ideology is a liberal one (conceding personal responsibility to the government) whether or not you adhear to liberal ideologies in other topics and areas of your life or not. So, while you claim not to be a liberal you are on this particular subject.

The gun banning ideology in the USA has its roots in anti-semitism and racism going back as far as colonial America when it was used to control people of then "undesireable" religious faiths. Post civil war gun banning was a tool used by the North and its carpet baggers to control blacks.

Are you proud of the heritage of the gun banning ideology in the USA to which you appear to adhere?
Liberalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I'm not a liberal but I don't have to sew everything up and end the conversation. I asked questions and expected to come away with good and bad, as well as learn exactly what makes people tic.
If the need to carry weapons in America isn't for protection then please correct my blather. I'm waiting to hear it. But, you cannot expect everyone who posts threads to already be set in an idea. You don't have to combat a question, you can just answer it.

I home schooled one of my children because the school system didn't have the resources to help with her disability. My other child goes to public school actually. Don't skim the book, you have to read the whole thing. This is what I mean. Don't assume someone is liberal just because they don't like everyone carrying a gun, or they are puzzled to why their country has so much crime when we've come so far. Why is questioning peoples reasons for carrying guns a "liberal" view? It isn't actually. Therefore there is no "liberal" bashing needed on this thread. Just answer the question or skip it, it's up to you. Your assumption of me isn't my problem, and like wise if it applies.
If you are on a religious thread does that make you a conservative? If you post a thread on how to fire a weapon shall I assume when in this territory you are a right wing nut job that hates the government? No! That would be ridiculous of me, as it is of you to assume I have a liberal view just because I don't carry a gun and wonder why people are so inclined to do so.

By the way, I buckle because there is a "law" that tells me I have to. I probably wouldn't if there wasn't a law. I am law abiding, but I am an optimist, I don't think I will die from a car accident every time I drive nor do I think I will have to use a gun to defend myself when I fly or go to the grocery store. But, if that is the reasoning some have then I can respect it. I just wanted to know the reasons.
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Old 04-23-2011, 10:52 AM
 
29,981 posts, read 42,856,313 times
Reputation: 12828
Quote:
Originally Posted by twiggy View Post
I'm now thinking of becoming a warrior!
Israeli Combat Training
Sort of looks like fun actually.
Not the type of training organization I would choose personally given the shortcomings I see on their website; but, there are those who are easily seperated from their money by seeking the CDI (chicks dig it) high speed/low drag factor.

Not that for a second I believe you are sincere; but, if you have a change of philosphy one day, I'd suggest you get your mindset in the right place before embarking in firearms training.


YouTube - Firearms and Personal Defense | Jeff Cooper

As to the rest of your demands, I've already explained the answers quite well. That you choose not to acknowledge or accept them is not my shortcoming. That you deny yourself as taking a liberal's stand on gun control is no surpise; though, it doesn't change the facts.

I'd say that thosw who CCW as a lifestyle are more optomistic than you because they plan to perservere by design, not by sheer luck or happenstance.

Just as you found inadequacies in the school for your daughter, those who choose responsible CCW as a lifestyle or own firearms for self defense can identify inadequacies in government provided "protection".

I carry a self defense tool because I cannot carry a cop. When you actually need law enforcement for an imminent lethal threat they are only minutes (or a half hour or more) away. Are you that optomistic or unrealistic that you willingly choose to risk the lives of your children on that shortcoming hoping that chance and luck are on your side? Many are not.

Last edited by lifelongMOgal; 04-23-2011 at 11:13 AM.. Reason: typos
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Old 04-23-2011, 10:58 AM
Status: "It Can't Rain All The Time" (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: North Pacific
15,755 posts, read 7,562,458 times
Reputation: 2576
Quote:
Originally Posted by twiggy View Post
Liberalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I'm not a liberal but I don't have to sew everything up and end the conversation. I asked questions and expected to come away with good and bad, as well as learn exactly what makes people tic.
If the need to carry weapons in America isn't for protection then please correct my blather. I'm waiting to hear it. But, you cannot expect everyone who posts threads to already be set in an idea. You don't have to combat a question, you can just answer it.

I home schooled one of my children because the school system didn't have the resources to help with her disability. My other child goes to public school actually. Don't skim the book, you have to read the whole thing. This is what I mean. Don't assume someone is liberal just because they don't like everyone carrying a gun, or they are puzzled to why their country has so much crime when we've come so far. Why is questioning peoples reasons for carrying guns a "liberal" view? It isn't actually. Therefore there is no "liberal" bashing needed on this thread. Just answer the question or skip it, it's up to you. Your assumption of me isn't my problem, and like wise if it applies.
If you are on a religious thread does that make you a conservative? If you post a thread on how to fire a weapon shall I assume when in this territory you are a right wing nut job that hates the government? No! That would be ridiculous of me, as it is of you to assume I have a liberal view just because I don't carry a gun and wonder why people are so inclined to do so.

By the way, I buckle because there is a "law" that tells me I have to. I probably wouldn't if there wasn't a law. I am law abiding, but I am an optimist, I don't think I will die from a car accident every time I drive nor do I think I will have to use a gun to defend myself when I fly or go to the grocery store. But, if that is the reasoning some have then I can respect it. I just wanted to know the reasons.
That in bold, if you figure that out, let me know what you find, I'd be most interested to learn that too.
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Old 04-23-2011, 10:58 AM
 
3,886 posts, read 10,064,252 times
Reputation: 1486
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleMan View Post
Well let's see, you're against 2nd amendement rights and call for a gun ban, and because you don't feel the need to be armed or protect yourself you don't think others should have the right to either......if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck......
Your funny, I'm not against anything but large amounts of death. I didn't call for a gun ban, I expressed that countries that have no gun laws seem to have less crime than us, I think you didn't read what I posted. I think you just put on your armor and assumed I was a "liberal". You seem to really dislike them, but whatever floats your boat.
Strange as it may be I am just a Independent voter, with a little bit of belief in both sides and a lot in neither. I just asked "why" do you think we have so much crime in a civil society. I said should we arm people who are more violent? I personally would think that was a no, but others don't and I want to hear it. That was a question, if the answer is yes then just answer the question.
I'm not sure what I think, it's not a simple issue, SimpleMan. Just not that simple, on the flip side, should we arm everyone? My jury is still out on this one. I go back and forth on the issue, my only concern is "how do we get some control over it?".
I might not have made myself clear, or misrepresented myself, but I will correct it now. This is not a plea to get rid of guns, it is a question, is gun control the answer? Proof says it's not, but if it isn't what makes our society so violent?
Someone suggested caning, like they do in another country which has little crime. Some suggest arming everyone as to protect ourselves, and I agree one might feel that need. Some suggest get rid of guns, ban them because they filter down, which they indeed do. I don't like guns, but I think maybe I don't clearly understand why people have them. I'm personally not sure yet. If you are, share.
You don't have to hate me, if you do then it's your right, but I really am sort of just asking everyone. Its selfish, I am trying to reason and get over some of my own pre conceived notions.

I need to add: I don't like being surrounded by a lot of fear. I don't watch CNN, or the like, because of the fear projected that I don't buy into. I also hate "fear" mongering in the political arena, or anywhere for that matter to sell a product of any kind. I see this on both sides of the political spectrum and I dislike it from either side and never see any reason for it. That might be what your confusing with liberal views, idk.

Last edited by twiggy; 04-23-2011 at 11:07 AM..
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Old 04-23-2011, 11:01 AM
 
3,886 posts, read 10,064,252 times
Reputation: 1486
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
Not the type of training organization I would choose personally given the shortcomings I see on their website; but, there are those who are easily seperated from their money by seeking the CDI (chicks dig it) high speed/low drag factor.

Not that for a second I believe you are sincere; but, if you have a chance of philosphy one day, I'd suggest you get your mindset in the right place before embarking in firearms training.


YouTube - Firearms and Personal Defense | Jeff Cooper

As to the rest of your demands, I've already explained the answers quite well. That you choose not to acknowledge or accept them is not my shortcoming. That you deny yourself as taking a liberal's stand on gun control is no surpise; though, it doesn't change the facts.
Ok, well lets just let it lay then. I don't want to turn this thread into a thread defending myself from having liberal views.
I am actually just starting to understand those of you who carry a gun a little bit, I think I'll continue with that.
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Old 04-23-2011, 11:04 AM
 
Location: North Texas
96 posts, read 209,114 times
Reputation: 53
There are fewer people in those countries. You will find most violent crime is committed in big cities in this country as well as others. It has nothing to do with guns or gun control. People who are raised crammed together in big metros are more selfish and care less about other human beings.
But the main reason guns aren't banned here is because the Second Amendment allows "the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bare arms."
But think, how would it make this country safer to take guns away from law-abiding citizens? If I obey the laws of the land and mankind what does it hurt for me to be armed? If there are people out there who want to kill me for what little money I have in my pocket why shouldn't I be allowed to protect myself?
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Old 04-23-2011, 11:20 AM
 
3,886 posts, read 10,064,252 times
Reputation: 1486
Quote:
Originally Posted by shootertoo View Post
There are fewer people in those countries. You will find most violent crime is committed in big cities in this country as well as others. It has nothing to do with guns or gun control. People who are raised crammed together in big metros are more selfish and care less about other human beings.
But the main reason guns aren't banned here is because the Second Amendment allows "the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bare arms."
But think, how would it make this country safer to take guns away from law-abiding citizens? If I obey the laws of the land and mankind what does it hurt for me to be armed? If there are people out there who want to kill me for what little money I have in my pocket why shouldn't I be allowed to protect myself?
Yes, I see your point. In my first post I said it would be the logical route to take guns away from a country this violent but it isn't a logical issue is it. Some people who own a gun are safe to be around, some are not. With the two variances I can see that one would want to defend themselves against the other. I do see your point, maybe I just don't want to see it, but I do. I just wish we could spend a little more time correcting the real issue, what ever it may be, if other countries can do it, why can't we? I guess we are just too large, which we are indeed.
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Old 04-23-2011, 11:25 AM
 
3,886 posts, read 10,064,252 times
Reputation: 1486
Just for all too know, I like hunting. My issue isn't with people who hunt, or people who go to the shooting range for fun, I can see that, except for being careful you don't shoot your friend. lol

It's just the carrying to protect oneself from others in everyday life. I don't think it's that bad, but I'm starting to wonder if I wear "rose colored" glasses. Hm........
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Old 04-23-2011, 11:41 AM
 
30,023 posts, read 18,596,563 times
Reputation: 20807
Quote:
Originally Posted by twiggy View Post
Your funny, I'm not against anything but large amounts of death. I didn't call for a gun ban, I expressed that countries that have no gun laws seem to have less crime than us, I think you didn't read what I posted. I think you just put on your armor and assumed I was a "liberal". You seem to really dislike them, but whatever floats your boat.
Strange as it may be I am just a Independent voter, with a little bit of belief in both sides and a lot in neither. I just asked "why" do you think we have so much crime in a civil society. I said should we arm people who are more violent? I personally would think that was a no, but others don't and I want to hear it. That was a question, if the answer is yes then just answer the question.
I'm not sure what I think, it's not a simple issue, SimpleMan. Just not that simple, on the flip side, should we arm everyone? My jury is still out on this one. I go back and forth on the issue, my only concern is "how do we get some control over it?".
I might not have made myself clear, or misrepresented myself, but I will correct it now. This is not a plea to get rid of guns, it is a question, is gun control the answer? Proof says it's not, but if it isn't what makes our society so violent?
Someone suggested caning, like they do in another country which has little crime. Some suggest arming everyone as to protect ourselves, and I agree one might feel that need. Some suggest get rid of guns, ban them because they filter down, which they indeed do. I don't like guns, but I think maybe I don't clearly understand why people have them. I'm personally not sure yet. If you are, share.
You don't have to hate me, if you do then it's your right, but I really am sort of just asking everyone. Its selfish, I am trying to reason and get over some of my own pre conceived notions.

I need to add: I don't like being surrounded by a lot of fear. I don't watch CNN, or the like, because of the fear projected that I don't buy into. I also hate "fear" mongering in the political arena, or anywhere for that matter to sell a product of any kind. I see this on both sides of the political spectrum and I dislike it from either side and never see any reason for it. That might be what your confusing with liberal views, idk.

The crux of the argument is this- These rights are not for YOU to decide one way or another. As you have stated, you don't know exactly what to think about firearms. That is fine. Just do not make that decision for other people.


Why do I own guns?

1. because I hunt
2. because I like to target shoot
3. because I have always owned guns and it is a part of our family culture just as much as riding bikes, playing tennis, or reading is for other families.
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Old 04-23-2011, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Scotland
425 posts, read 652,459 times
Reputation: 412
Quote:
Originally Posted by twiggy View Post
No, not much, so I hear anyway.
Do you really have a Glock under your Kilt?
I have a Glock. It's only 9mm but it can be used 17 times in rapid succession with excellent penetration capability.

It's only used responsibly.

Unfortunately I'm not allowed to have it in this country, so I rely mainly on the dirk in my sock.
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