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Old 04-30-2011, 02:27 PM
 
3,681 posts, read 6,274,458 times
Reputation: 1516

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ray1945 View Post
The "results of the system" have been improving since the 50s.

http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/p20-550.pdf

Percentage of high school dropouts among persons 16 through 24 years old (status dropout rate), by sex and race/ethnicity: Selected years, 1960 through 2006



Sometimes it's nice to know what you're talking about...

FACTS, not opinion garnered from right wing talking heads.

Simple like that....
Or like this...

Education Week: U.S. Graduation Rate Continues Decline

"The share of the population with a secondary education increased threefold from 1920 to 1940, when, for the first time, a slim majority of American youths graduated from high school. Finishing high school became more firmly established as a social and educational norm in postwar America, as the graduation rate rose steadily through the 1950s and 1960s. Completion rates peaked in 1969, with 77 percent of that high school class earning diplomas."

"The next three decades were marked by a retreat from those historical highs; the graduation rate eroded incrementally at certain times and fell significantly at others, including a sharp drop during the first half of the 1990s. Although the nation regained some ground between the late 1990s and 2005, the graduation rate now stands at about the same level as it did in the early 1960s."

 
Old 04-30-2011, 02:30 PM
 
3,681 posts, read 6,274,458 times
Reputation: 1516
Quote:
Originally Posted by ray1945 View Post
Read my previous posts - I have no problem with home schooling. The OP pondered if her daughter would have followed the same path had she gone to public school. I simply posed an possible alternative scenario.

How about you providing some verifiable stats on the incidence of teachers imposing their views on their students. To hear you guys, it happens everywhere, all the time, so you shouldn't have any problem finding some FACTS to support your POV.
The facts and proof have been repeatedly presented in this thread. You refuse to acknowledge them. Your choice.
 
Old 04-30-2011, 02:32 PM
 
6,993 posts, read 6,338,198 times
Reputation: 2824
Quote:
Originally Posted by maja View Post
The facts and proof have been repeatedly presented in this thread. You refuse to acknowledge them. Your choice.
All I have read in this thread are anecdotes - not one verifiable fact has been presented.

Last edited by ray1945; 04-30-2011 at 03:09 PM..
 
Old 04-30-2011, 02:37 PM
 
6,993 posts, read 6,338,198 times
Reputation: 2824
Quote:
Originally Posted by maja View Post
Or like this...

Education Week: U.S. Graduation Rate Continues Decline

"The share of the population with a secondary education increased threefold from 1920 to 1940, when, for the first time, a slim majority of American youths graduated from high school. Finishing high school became more firmly established as a social and educational norm in postwar America, as the graduation rate rose steadily through the 1950s and 1960s. Completion rates peaked in 1969, with 77 percent of that high school class earning diplomas."

"The next three decades were marked by a retreat from those historical highs; the graduation rate eroded incrementally at certain times and fell significantly at others, including a sharp drop during the first half of the 1990s. Although the nation regained some ground between the late 1990s and 2005, the graduation rate now stands at about the same level as it did in the early 1960s."
Raw data from US DOE says it's not so:
Percentage of high school dropouts among persons 16 through 24 years old (status dropout rate), by sex and race/ethnicity: Selected years, 1960 through 2006
 
Old 04-30-2011, 02:40 PM
 
3,681 posts, read 6,274,458 times
Reputation: 1516
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I meant this book:

The Federal Curriculum, Government Subsidized Text Book makes no mention of the Ninth or Tenth Amendments when discussing the rights protected under The Bill of Rights.

I've never heard of it and I have serious doubts that it exists, at least in that form.
The name of the text book, which was given earlier, is called "We The People: The Citizen and the Constitution." It is published by the Center for Civic Education, the same folks who brought us the Federal Curriculum. It is authorized and financially subsidized by the Federal Government. No bids given out. No known review process.Only known text book authorized by the Federal Government. You can order one for about $12.00. The CCE is located in Calabasas, CA
 
Old 04-30-2011, 02:54 PM
 
6,993 posts, read 6,338,198 times
Reputation: 2824
Quote:
Originally Posted by maja View Post
The name of the text book, which was given earlier, is called "We The People: The Citizen and the Constitution." It is published by the Center for Civic Education, the same folks who brought us the Federal Curriculum. It is authorized and financially subsidized by the Federal Government. No bids given out. No known review process.Only known text book authorized by the Federal Government. You can order one for about $12.00. The CCE is located in Calabasas, CA
You can check out sample lessons here Center for Civic Education High School and then decide for yourself.

We the People: The Citizen and the Constitution is also
Quote:
a yearly competition for American high school students held in Washington D.C. The competition is styled as a congressional hearing. Each team is divided up into six units, each composed of three or more students. Each unit focuses on a particular area of Constitutional interest - from the philosophical underpinnings and Constitutional Convention to modern day implications. We the People: The Citizen and the Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Old 04-30-2011, 03:27 PM
 
Location: California
37,135 posts, read 42,214,810 times
Reputation: 35013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
No. Teaching involves facts, not evaluations and opinions.

If you don't know the difference you might try reading about it.
I'm thinking that fact spewing robots have never taught anyone anything. Everythign is colored by opinion and evaluations. History for example.
 
Old 04-30-2011, 03:37 PM
 
Location: California
37,135 posts, read 42,214,810 times
Reputation: 35013
Quote:
Originally Posted by ray1945 View Post
You can check out sample lessons here Center for Civic Education High School and then decide for yourself.

We the People: The Citizen and the Constitution is also
My kids school has made it to Nationals several times and have placed in the top 3 more than once. I see it listed in the Wiki.
 
Old 04-30-2011, 03:38 PM
 
3,886 posts, read 10,081,159 times
Reputation: 1486
Quote:
Originally Posted by ray1945 View Post
Read my previous posts - I have no problem with home schooling. The OP pondered if her daughter would have followed the same path had she gone to public school. I simply posed an possible alternative scenario.

How about you providing some verifiable stats on the incidence of teachers imposing their views on their students. To hear you guys, it happens everywhere, all the time, so you shouldn't have any problem finding some FACTS to support your POV.
Of course it does, their are well meaning teachers everywhere that make these mistakes on a much smaller level. They are just use to doing it. The ones you are going to find are extremes but I'm sure you are aware.
Court Decision on Evolution & Creationism: Peloza v. Capistrano
Peloza tried to teach creationism to his class.

Teacher Tarah Ausburn sacked over 'have you drugged your kids today' bumper sticker | Mail Online

"She added that she ‘just likes the ability to take a controversial topic and sum it up in one clever line. I'm an English teacher, that's what I do’.
Ms Ausburn claimed she did not share the opinions expressed on the stickers with her pupils inside the classroom and whenever a child inquired she replied that she likes to ‘express my opinions’."
This one is an example of a teacher bordering the subject. She obviously didn't say enough in her classroom to warrant firing but she had an influence and the students knew her stance on these subjects. I doubt they would be able to refute without getting into trouble for being disruptive. That is the problem. You are always going to have a mixed bag, teachers that know better and ones that do not. You will also have these opinions at home as always, regardless of school, but if you are a good home schooler you will allow your child to refute and project their point of view and to disagree. That is the difference. In school they cannot argue against a teachers stance on a subject. It makes for an atmosphere of fear. Ask for a bathroom break, ask for a drink, ask for a chance to answer a question, do not cause disruption or pay a price. All of this only happens in a school room setting simply because you have a large amount of people who need to be under one persons control, it can't be helped but that does not make it better.
Unfortunately this atmosphere also makes it easier to control what kids think instead of letting them think for themselves. It can't be helped in my opinion.
You might not agree and that is fine but it does occur, just as their are some bad parents out their or parents that don't know any better there are teachers that do this as well.
 
Old 04-30-2011, 04:10 PM
 
6,993 posts, read 6,338,198 times
Reputation: 2824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceece View Post
My kids school has made it to Nationals several times and have placed in the top 3 more than once. I see it listed in the Wiki.
Oh dear! Have your children exhibited any seditious behaviors??
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