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I haven't heard of any parties about his death, just quiet relief or irritation that they haven't been too forthcoming of many of the details.
But we have been joking about it.
Do you think Osama got his 72 virgins? I doubt it, but he's got an excellent chance of getting 72 STURGEONS.
I thought we were talking Middle East/Muslim conflicts. Yes, we killed a lot of people in Hiroshima & Nagasaki. But imagine how many would have been killed in a land invasion. But the Japanese haven't come after us for that. Even they realize it was a wartime action & that their forces killed many innocent civilians wherever they were.
Is Iraq over 100,000? How many deaths by our soldiers & how many from suicide bombers & other fighters?
So, the 911 teams came after us because of Japan and Gulf War 1? Gulf War 2 hadn't happened yet on 911.
Recall also, that we gave Afghans a lot of weapons to help fight off the Soviets in the 80's. Then a few decades later, the Afghans help harbor and train terrorists to attack us. Make sense?
Sorry to bring in other geography but I thought generally speaking it was relevant to this discussion. No it does not make sense in any conventional way. But you don't have to be a history major to recall many examples of foreign relations that "don't make sense." Maybe...just maybe...there are things going on that we don't know about that would help make this "nonsense" make sense.
Russia is an ally then the Cold War and a potential nuclear enemy. As you mentioned...Afghanistan (another Russian connection). Just to name one major one. Arms dealers from the US, and other countries, sell arms pretty freely to anyone who will pay...from what I hear. I am sure we have sold many a weapon that has been used on our own. Politics and war. Dirty business?
And Japan recognizing it as an act of war? Maybe their officials did, but do you think the families of survivors and the population in general felt that way? Maybe they did but then again, who are we to say? I'm just saying that the official justification of these acts does not necessarily translate to the attitudes of the masses. Sandinista? Freedom fighter? War? Terror? Who the f**k cares? It's all death and destruction at some level and there will always be someone to justify it for their own agenda.
So, how did Iraq bring on 911? All these innocents we supposedly killed there were after 911, not before it. Same with Libya & the other current trouble spots.
It may do you some good to read a little bit on the history of American intervention in the middle-east.
Sanctions: The Cruel and Brutal War against the Iraqi People, Part 1 (http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0401a.asp - broken link)
I don't know how anyone couldn't see that American intervention prior to 9/11 caused far more deaths than 9/11 ever did. In fact, the 3,000 people killed in 9/11 is about half the number of just American military deaths from the War on terror. I have no doubt that the total number of people who have died either directly or indirectly from American interventionism in the Middle-east to be in the millions. But why? What was the purpose of all those deaths? Why do we care so much about the middle-east?
The simple answer is oil. Oil is the greatest scourge on this planet. We need it, and we will do anything for it. We invade, occupy, kill, assassinate, overthrow, destroy, and pillage for oil. That is the real object of American foreign policy. We just tell ourselves that we are "just trying to help them" so we can sleep at night. If we were actually doing these things out of the kindness of our hearts, we would actually care about the same kinds of things that happen in non-oil producing countries in Africa. But we don't give two craps about Africa, because theres no oil there.
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So the terror teams on 911 came because of our involvement in Vietnam? Somehow I doubt the Arabs involved in 911 even knew about our involvement in Vietnam & likely didn't care if they did. If memory serves me, the bombers were all in their 20's, maybe early 30's, so Vietnam was either before their time or they were toddlers watching Daddy beat Mommy up because she supposedly looked in the direction of a man 2 blocks down the street.
I didn't say that they came as a result of Vietnam. I said America constantly involved itself in foreign nations and kills hundreds of thousands of innocent people as a result. American intervention in Vietnam wasn't for oil, but it was for US hegemony over Asia, and to fight communism. The truth was, the vast majority of the Vietnamese wanted to be communist, they hated the US-backed regime we setup in south Vietnam. And once we left, they didn't even fight the communists. That war was a pathetic and unnecessary loss of life. Three million southeast Asians died as a result of it. But we don't care, just like we don't care about the hundreds of thousands of people dying in the middle-east as a result of our intervention there. We want what we want, and we don't care who and how many suffer to get it.
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So Americans killed every person who died in Vietnam? We were the evil devils there? Then explain why thousands of Vietnamese fled Vietnam in the late 70's, packed on rickety old boats. Many died, endured pirates, rapists, hunger & shipwrecks. A good many of them eventually came here & started a better life. Would they have come here if we were so evil? They feared their own people, from North Vietnam, far more than they feared us.
There were many southern Vietnamese who came to America, sure. There were also many southern Vietnamese that defected to North Vietnam because they hated the south vietnamese government, which was incredibly corrupt. If the south Vietnamese, who were armed and trained by us, were so terribly afraid of the North Vietnamese, then they probably would have fought a little harder as we were leaving.
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The article on Churchill fails to mention that the appeasement of Hitler was by Neville Chamberlain, not Churchill. Churchill did not become PM until 1940, when the war was already underway. Duh.
The appeasement of Hitler did not cause WWII. Sure, Chamberlain caused the war between Britain and Nazi Germany. I stated that Churchill was primarily the cause for America entering the war. He was the one who negotiated the lend-lease act(which was illegal under our neutrality laws). He is the one you see pictured alongside FDR and Stalin. My point was that it was an unnecessary war, and that Churchill pushed and pushed America till we got involved.
I might agree with you on one point. We should probably get totally out of the Middle East. At best, 1 tyrant fights another, then becomes as bad as the 1 he threw out. Along with that, we need to rejuvenate our own oil drilling; offshore, in ANWR & anywhere else we have oil. We have energy resources, we need to put them to use. Let the Arabs drink their oil and solve their own problems. Solar has its place for some uses, so do other alternative energies.
I agree, I think we would have naturally gotten off oil more if we didn't constantly meddle in the middle-east. Politicians are so worried that an oil shock will hurt our economy and that they won't get reelected, so they involve themselves constantly in the middle-east to protect our oil supplies. I say, let oil prices fluctuate, until people get tired of it and start making more responsible buying decisions in regards to personal automobiles. Stop demanding that government subsidizes the cost of fuel when it gets too high, and allow business to drill for more oil in our own country.
But keep in mind, we do not have enough oil in this country to sustain our energy needs. We would need to triple our current domestic production to match our needs right now. Instead of allowing the market to work, and allow gas prices to go up, which would economically pressure people to look for alternatives to oil. We articially push the price of oil down, through spending on defense, environmental, foreign aid, etc. And because the real cost of oil gets subsidized in this way, it keeps the price low so people don't feel the need to make a switch. That is why there has been a cry for the government to use force to change peoples habits. Why would people change on their own if government is articially keeping prices low? It makes no economic sense.
Last edited by Redshadowz; 05-06-2011 at 09:47 AM..
Sanctions: The Cruel and Brutal War against the Iraqi People, Part 1 (http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0401a.asp - broken link)
I don't know how anyone couldn't see that American intervention prior to 9/11 caused far more deaths than 9/11 ever did. In fact, the 3,000 people killed in 9/11 is about half the number of just American military deaths from the War on terror. I have no doubt that the total number of people who have died either directly or indirectly from American interventionism in the Middle-east to be in the millions. But why? What was the purpose of all those deaths? Why do we care so much about the middle-east?
The simple answer is oil. Oil is the greatest scourge on this planet. We need it, and we will do anything for it. We invade, occupy, kill, assassinate, overthrow, destroy, and pillage for oil. That is the real object of American foreign policy. We just tell ourselves that we are "just trying to help them" so we can sleep at night. If we were actually doing these things out of the kindness of our hearts, we would actually care about the same kinds of things that happen in non-oil producing countries in Africa. But we don't give two craps about Africa, because theres no oil there.
I didn't say that they came as a result of Vietnam. I said America constantly involved itself in foreign nations and kills hundreds of thousands of innocent people as a result. American intervention in Vietnam wasn't for oil, but it was for US hegemony over Asia, and to fight communism. The truth was, the vast majority of the Vietnamese wanted to be communist, they hated the US-backed regime we setup in south Vietnam. And once we left, they didn't even fight the communists. That war was a pathetic and unnecessary loss of life. Three million southeast Asians died as a result of it. But we don't care, just like we don't care about the hundreds of thousands of people dying in the middle-east as a result of our intervention there. We want what we want, and we don't care who and how many suffer to get it.
There were many southern Vietnamese who came to America, sure. There were also many southern Vietnamese that defected to North Vietnam because they hated the south vietnamese government, which was incredibly corrupt. If the south Vietnamese, who were armed and trained by us, were so terribly afraid of the North Vietnamese, then they probably would have fought a little harder as we were leaving.
The appeasement of Hitler did not cause WWII. Sure, Chamberlain caused the war between Britain and Nazi Germany. I stated that Churchill was primarily the cause for America entering the war. He was the one who negotiated the lend-lease act(which was illegal under our neutrality laws). He is the one you see pictured alongside FDR and Stalin. My point was that it was an unnecessary war, and that Churchill pushed and pushed America till we got involved.
I agree, I think we would have naturally gotten off oil more if we didn't constantly meddle in the middle-east. Politicians are so worried that an oil shock will hurt our economy and that they won't get reelected, so they involve themselves constantly in the middle-east to protect our oil supplies. I say, let oil prices fluctuate, until people get tired of it and start making more responsible buying decisions in regards to personal automobiles. Stop demanding that government subsidizes the cost of fuel when it gets too high, and allow business to drill for more oil in our own country.
But keep in mind, we do not have enough oil in this country to sustain our energy needs. We would need to triple our current domestic production to match our needs right now. Instead of allowing the market to work, and allow gas prices to go up, which would economically pressure people to look for alternatives to oil. We articially push the price of oil down, through spending on defense, environmental, foreign aid, etc. And because the real cost of oil gets subsidized in this way, it keeps the price low so people don't feel the need to make a switch. That is why there has been a cry for the government to use force to change peoples habits. Why would people change on their own if government is articially keeping prices low? It makes no economic sense.
And just how scary is the thought of continually "asking" for government intervention, forceful or otherwise? Well. At minimum, it is theoretically in direct conflict with conservative ideals. It also threatens the basic ideal of personal liberty, the liberty which should be of value to us all regardless of our political affiliations.
The U.S. doesn't kill by using low tech terrorist tactics, the U.S. uses high tech weaponry such as predator drones, etc. Therefore, asking such a question is pointless and is comparing apples to oranges.
Wow, that's a convenient answer. I ask for examples & you say it's pointless.
We have been fighting the middleastern Piriates.........
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Originally Posted by Tiger Blood
Were Americans burning Pakistani flags and screaming death to Islam ?
Because terrorists and their sympathizers in the Middle East have a habit of burning Israeli and American flags and screaming death to Israel and death to America.
......YEA!....since Jefferson established the Marine corp. specifically to Kill Pirates and other thieves and murderers. We paid juice under Washington but Jefferson stopped that...........now we are paying Juice to the UN.........and they do nothing, but take our devalued dollars, poor babies.
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We have been fighting the middleastern Piriates.........
