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Iran’s intelligence minister says the country has reliable information that former head of the al-Qaeda terrorist group Osama bin Laden died of disease some time ago.
“We have accurate information that bin Laden died of illness some time ago,” Heidar Moslehi told reporters on the sidelines of a Cabinet meeting on Sunday.
I'm curious to know why you accept the word of Iran's intelligence minister over anyone else's (especially if the "anyone else" happens to be American)?
Wow.....you sound like my wife with your use of hyperbole. Again....how many people would persue allegations that there mother was a hooker? Most people would stick their head in the sand because they DONT WANT TO KNOW and they don't believe it true. The benefit/cost analysis tilts all to cost. People don't want to know the vice of this nation for the same reason. People don't want to see the US as doing evil stuff anymore than they want to picture and accept that their morthers turned tricks.
The vice of this nation eh, obviously America will never be goos enough for you. Luckily with the Rapture coming on the 21st you won't have long to put up with us.
I'm curious to know why you accept the word of Iran's intelligence minister over anyone else's (especially if the "anyone else" happens to be American)?
The Undead, like the GOp are grasping at straws because, despite their best efforts America has not been destroyed by having a black president named Obama
I think everyone is tired of reading it. Every time someone wants to push a conspiracy theory, they trot out the ol' Northwoods link. I remember in the 70's when it came out that the CIA had plans to put explosives in seashells to assassinate Castro when he was scuba diving. I guess there's no link for that one.
The problems with the Northwoods story is that it proves nothing about what is going on today. It was 50 years ago, so nobody is still in office who was part of this plan. The plan was never implemented in the first place, so that kind of kills what the truthers want you believe about the government being this secret dastardly consortium of sinister characters all in lockstep with one another. All but the most naive persons do not believe our government tells us everything or makes decisions based on lofty, altruistic goals. However, not everyone is as stupid as the truthers want so desperately to believe (which then puts them above everyone else as the keepers of the "true" knowledge--their actual reason for existing). People use their judgment. We probably were not told every detail about the OBL killing. However, the basics are likely true, simply because it's not that good a story if it's made up. Most people on here could think of a better lie.
The inherent failings of any system are the humans that run it. Humans have certain fears and desires. All throughout written history humankind has coveted what others have and all throughout history humans have used war as a means of expanding and taking. What people like you are trying to propagate or defend is the belief that American humans are NOT like historical or contemporary humans in other places, when there has been no genetic mutation by virtue of this geography that would make such belief plausible.
Just because we live in a pseudo democracy does not mean that this nation cannot be bad. Theoretically, if you had a nation of “bad” people and that nation was a democracy then the nation will do bad things. If a nation was a dictatorship and the dictator was benevolent then the nation would do good things. There is nothing inherent about a “political system” that can change the nature of humans, who are plagued with sins. The thing is that power often corrupts.
What the Norwood’s incident represents is that there has been a demonstrated existence of MOTIVES and MEANS to inflict harm to Americans, by Americans, in order so that it will serve as a pretext for military action by convincing civilians of the need to retaliate or engage. It was not carried out because it was thwarted by civilian elected political leaders. So they only lacked OPPORTUNITY. The thing is this. How would civilian leaders ever know if some rouge elements in the security and defense apparatus manufactured such events on their own to circumvent civilian approval? What keeps that from happening? If the CIA says that Osama bin Laden is in a house, how could civilian leadership debunk the claim?
I am not arguing that I know what happened when I have not the ability to bear direct witness. This is totally an issue of TRUST and FAITH. It’s not about facts because none of us can bear witness to facts, only what others say. Thus, again, it’s about trust and faith. Hence, everything is on the table when you don’t know. However, you have to look for demonstrated MOTIVE, MEANS and OPPORTUNITY. That is all I have to go by, Motive, Means and Opportunity. If the US has a vital geopolitical and or economical interest in that region of the world, then we have the Motive. Do we have a strong military and intelligence (spies, double agents, informants and the like)? Then we have the means. Are there people from that area who do not like the US and who might plot against us that we could LEVERAGE and facilitate to use their acts as justification to bring our armies to their lands? The answer is yes. Hence, to choose to not even place the husband on the suspect list when the wife is murdered makes no sense, especially when the husband has a demonstrated Motive, Means and the Opportunity for the murder.
The vice of this nation eh, obviously America will never be goos enough for you. Luckily with the Rapture coming on the 21st you won't have long to put up with us.
Nations are like women. If one is not good enough for me then I would not be with her. The problem is that no matter where you go.....you cannot escape human nature as long as you are around humans. You cannot live with them....and you cannot live without them.
The inherent failings of any system are the humans that run it. Humans have certain fears and desires. All throughout written history humankind has coveted what others have and all throughout history humans have used war as a means of expanding and taking. What people like you are trying to propagate or defend is the belief that American humans are NOT like historical or contemporary humans in other places, when there has been no genetic mutation by virtue of this geography that would make such belief plausible.
Just because we live in a pseudo democracy does not mean that this nation cannot be bad. Theoretically, if you had a nation of “bad” people and that nation was a democracy then the nation will do bad things. If a nation was a dictatorship and the dictator was benevolent then the nation would do good things. There is nothing inherent about a “political system” that can change the nature of humans, who are plagued with sins. The thing is that power often corrupts.
What the Norwood’s incident represents is that there has been a demonstrated existence of MOTIVES and MEANS to inflict harm to Americans, by Americans, in order so that it will serve as a pretext for military action by convincing civilians of the need to retaliate or engage. It was not carried out because it was thwarted by civilian elected political leaders. So they only lacked OPPORTUNITY. The thing is this. How would civilian leaders ever know if some rouge elements in the security and defense apparatus manufactured such events on their own to circumvent civilian approval? What keeps that from happening? If the CIA says that Osama bin Laden is in a house, how could civilian leadership debunk the claim?
I am not arguing that I know what happened when I have not the ability to bear direct witness. This is totally an issue of TRUST and FAITH. It’s not about facts because none of us can bear witness to facts, only what others say. Thus, again, it’s about trust and faith. Hence, everything is on the table when you don’t know. However, you have to look for demonstrated MOTIVE, MEANS and OPPORTUNITY. That is all I have to go by, Motive, Means and Opportunity. If the US has a vital geopolitical and or economical interest in that region of the world, then we have the Motive. Do we have a strong military and intelligence (spies, double agents, informants and the like)? Then we have the means. Are there people from that area who do not like the US and who might plot against us that we could LEVERAGE and facilitate to use their acts as justification to bring our armies to their lands? The answer is yes. Hence, to choose to not even place the husband on the suspect list when the wife is murdered makes no sense, especially when the husband has a demonstrated Motive, Means and the Opportunity for the murder.
"People like me"? If you actually READ my post, you would see that I never said anything of the kind that would bolster your belief, bolded, that you want to assign to "people like me". I am not accepting such assignations. Please refrain from that cheesy tactic in the future, or just don't respond to my posts. Thanks.
"People like me"? If you actually READ my post, you would see that I never said anything of the kind that would bolster your belief, bolded, that you want to assign to "people like me". I am not accepting such assignations. Please refrain from that cheesy tactic in the future, or just don't respond to my posts. Thanks.
The Norwood incident proves as much as the current claims do. Again, we can never bear witness directly to truth of events and hence there will never be such a thing as "PROOF"....so why obfuscate the debate with the term? The issuee here is MOTIVE, MEANS and OPPORTUNITY.
It would be a lie to suggest that the US does not have the Motive, Means and the Opportunity to fabricate this event.
I am not American, but I think Osama Bin Laden was already tried and convicted a long time ago, since when cowardly he killed three thousand people.
The U.S. inteligence service just need finds him and kills him.
Commons laws are not applicable against terrorists like him, because they make fun about the laws.
Because this kind of people Guantanamo exists and should continue to exist.
The world is better without him.
Last edited by BRAZILIAN; 05-10-2011 at 04:25 PM..
Reason: error
I am not American, but I think Osama Bin Laden was already tried and convicted a long time ago, since when cowardly he killed three thousand people.
The U.S. inteligence service just need finds him and kills him.
Commons laws are not applicable against terrorists like him, because they make fun about the laws.
Because this kind of people Guantanamo exists and should continue to exist.
The world is better without him.
Your terrorist may be our freedom fighter........even our judicial system gets it wrong sometimes, but that's the best we have for seeking out the truth.
We should be a nation of laws, we are becoming a nation of "well that depends upon who those laws are applied to, it's all relative". The Constitution says we are all to be treated equally. Outside of this country, we abide by the laws of their land - "when in Rome".......... When it comes to war, we abide by the Geneva Convention. Obama thinks he can make his own laws. Congress should tell him he is wrong.
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I wonder what the spot price is on Aluminum today?
